Window regs

[Kev]

Morning all,

I know this has been discussed a few times before! But wanted to get some up to date advice given how quickly the powers that be seem to come up with new ways of being awkward. - oops, I mean introduce new regulations to improve the efficiency and performance of building elements

Basically, I have a couple of jobs to do, the first is to make a replacement box sash window for a customer, this is a purely like for like replacement as it is in a very strict conservation area and has to be identical.

The second is to replace the box frames in my house with oak box frames. I may use spiral balances for this, not sure. My house is not listed or in a conservation area.

There seems to be a minefield of regs for windows. Do I need to seek approval before commencing these windows and also what are the current requirements for glass, does it need to be low-e glass. The first will ned to go back in single glazed for the reasons mentioned.

Finally doe anyone know of any sources for box frame construction drawings. Have not made one for at least 15 years!

Thanks

Kev

 

[Dibs-h]

Morning all,

I know this has been discussed a few times before! But wanted to get some up to date advice given how quickly the powers that be seem to come up with new ways of being awkward. - oops, I mean introduce new regulations to improve the efficiency and performance of building elements

Basically, I have a couple of jobs to do, the first is to make a replacement box sash window for a customer, this is a purely like for like replacement as it is in a very strict conservation area and has to be identical.

The second is to replace the box frames in my house with oak box frames. I may use spiral balances for this, not sure. My house is not listed or in a conservation area.

There seems to be a minefield of regs for windows. Do I need to seek approval before commencing these windows and also what are the current requirements for glass, does it need to be low-e glass. The first will ned to go back in single glazed for the reasons mentioned.

Finally doe anyone know of any sources for box frame construction drawings. Have not made one for at least 15 years!

Thanks

Kev

Kev

Can't give you the legal (if there is any) perpective - your own house? If it was mine - I'd get on with it and just do it!

As for the customers - I'd probably apply the same logic - especially as it's a like for like replacement and sounds like a listed building.

Common sense - has to win at some point.

There's quite a few threads on window here - I do recall somemane making something similar, but not quite who.

HIH

Dibs

 

[tomatwark]

I stopped making windows last year whenthe regs changed in October.

I think if the building is listed and the window has to like for like, you can just get on with it although your customers will need to check with the planning department that they will not insist it is now double glazed. If it is you will need to register to be able to provide an energy performence certificate.

As for your windows if you are double glazing them you could just replace them, but if and when you come to sell the house if and it is mentioned that the windows have been replaced the other sides solicitors may insist on a certificate for the windows, also if building control notice you have changed them they may ask for one as well.

It used to be that you could put in a building regs application and the building inspector would come out and check them, as the u value of the window was calculated on the glass, now the whole window has to be tested and they will not be able to do that.

Have a look at this site http://www.thermalratingregister.org/

It has turned into a bit of a mine field and this is why I decided to not to do windows and doors anymore as I was only doing a
few a year anyway.

Tom

 

[dexter]

I recently replaced the four double glazed units around my front door. They were put in when the house was built and only had a 6mm air gap, I wanted to replace them with units with a more efficient 15mm gap and have an etched design on them. The rebates were deep enough to take the new units so it was just a case of straight out with the old and in with the new. They were being made with toughened glass as per requirements and I thought I`d give the local planning office a call to see if changing them would need any building regs approval. The panels were 2@ 290mm X 950mm and 2@ 290mm X 600mm so not large by any means.
So, like a good citizen I phoned the planning office and asked the clerk who answered the phone if I could speak to one of the Building Control Officers. She said, " They are all very busy at the moment perhaps I can help you." so I told her my situation and she said, "just a minuet please" and then I heard here ask one of these very busy BCO`s my question!! The conversation continued,
" Yes you will need to register for Building regs approval, there are three ways you can do it. You can send a stamped addressed envelope to us and we will post an application form to you or you can pick up a form from the one stop shop here at the town hall or you can download one from the council website. Once completed, return the form together with a cheque for £65 to us and I will update our data base with your application"
There was a slight pause and I replied, " so for that £65 will someone from your office come and give me a lift to fit these windows?"
"Oh no," she said, " I put the details on the data base and a BCO may call and inspect the works. We do try to visit about 10% of the applications we receive."
"So 90% of the the people who pay this £65 never get a visit?" said I.
"Well we are very busy "
"So, for this £65 do I get any proof of my application?"
"No It`s kept on our data base but you may want to photocopy the application before you return it to us."
Suffice to say that the glass went in and the council didn't get the money.

Dex

 

[tomatwark]

Dex

Replacing the glass in an exisiting frame is ok, it when you start to replace whole windows and doors and frames you start to run up against the regs.

And when you come to sell the house it can cause problems.

I would have just replaced your glass and not worried about it.

But when the regs changed in October last year it was not very well advertised and there are alot of small joiners making the odd window not meeting the new part L regs who may come unstuck down the road if they have a really tough customer.

Tom

 

[jeffinfrance]

if everyone, not just me, stopped asking permission for everything, what could they actually do?

jeff

 

[Kev]

I had a feeling it would be problematic! Not so worried on my house as don't plan to go anywhere for at least the next 20 years or so.

I assumed that part L was solely the glass that was the issue but it seems from what some of you are saying is that it is related to the frame as well. I do recall reading this somewhere before but assumed this was for new build. If you are replacing the odd window or door as a repair I guess I just assumed that it did not matter so much.

I have to say this is just another example of the small guy such as myself and many others trying to make a living being shafted in favour of the larger companies. I say this because I assume that the type of part L requirements will most probably require expensive equipment to make it profitable. I know there is an energy efficiency argument here but come on, home much money is made by LA,s on charging for these so called services.

And they wonder why so many small businesses go under, I'm not saying this is the main reason but regs like this certainly don't help anyone.

 

[joiner_sim]

Hello Kev,

This link will help you with your plans and drawings: http://www.boylandjoinery.co.uk/CAD_sections.html

Take a look at this link for regulations info> http://www.woodwindowalliance.com/f...me_20Fact_20card_201-_20Part_20L_20050307.pdf

Hope that helps.

 

[Digit]

Me and my local council planning department have an understanding.
I don't bother them and they don't bother me!

Roy.

 

[tomatwark]

Hello Kev,

This link will help you with your plans and drawings: http://www.boylandjoinery.co.uk/CAD_sections.html

Take a look at this link for regulations info> http://www.woodwindowalliance.com/f...me_20Fact_20card_201-_20Part_20L_20050307.pdf

Hope that helps.

The regs you are showing are dated 2006, these changed in Oct 2010 and you cannot use the centre pane to calculate the U value any more.

Tom

 

[tomatwark]

Hi Kev

Someone on another I am a member of has registered and it is about £200 per year, If you are going to make windows frequently if may be worth registering.

I decided to concentrate on furniture and kitchens and not to both with doors and windows.

Tom

 

[RogerS]

Is the building Listed? If Yes then even if it is Like for Like you still need to contact Conservation and Planning. If it is Like for Like then Building Control don't get involved.

If you change the glazing from single to double then even though it is Like for Like then you have to get Building Control involved AND the window has to be to Oct 2010 Part L.

Not Listed? Sticking in a new sliding sash is a repair and so Building Control are not involved. But if you replace the frame then it is a replacement and Building Control do get involved.

The way to meet the Regs is to use Planitherm Total+ and Argon and a spacing of 16mm IIRC. That gives you centre-u-value of 1.2 which is OK and you don't need to worry about the frame.

Don't know what happens with Conservation area...I would guess that Planning do get involved to make sure that the visual aspects of the window from the outside world do not change. So if, for example, you are trying to replace a singe glazed sash with a double glazed unit then you may have problems because there is no way (especially if the original glazing bars are very slender) that you can get a slim glazing bar AND a double glazing unit...unless you shell out for those very expensive Slimlite units. I use a low profile spacer and can get the glazing bars down reasonably thin.

And don't forget that the weights are going to have to increase in weight....because the dgu's are heavier (naturally)...which might give you problems if you are trying to retrofit just new sliding sashes as the sash box might not be large enough for you to get the required size weights in.

 

[Kev]

Thanks all,

I am going off the idea fo doing anymore doors and windows very quickly!

kev