Wadkin AGS10 restoration

[Krysstel]

Hi guys. I’ve been around here quite a bit before but not for some time now.
Anyway I’m back and hope to pick the brains of the Wadkin experts amongst you – and I know there’s a few of you in here

First, I live in Norway (but am a UK expat) where Wadkins of any kind are thin on the ground but this week I came across an AGS10 for a fairly reasonable price and jumped on it. Checked it over today, made a bid and I’m collecting in a couple of days.
I’ve checked out the machine number using this excellent site http://www.wadkinrestorations.co.uk/machine-date.html
and concluded that it was made in 1963. Is that good or bad ?

At present the motor is connected as 400V 3-phase but has previously been run as 230V 3-phase as is the norm in Norway – I also have 230V 3-phase in my cellar workshop so no problems there hopefully.

Inspired by the several excellent restoring threads I’ve read here before I’m planning a complete strip down of the saw and total rebuild with new bearings, paint etc etc

And so to the questions of which they’ll probably be more of over the next weeks but as a start :-
1. The fence locking handle is broken. What can I do about that ? Try to repair or are they available from somewhere as replacements ?
2. What about the paint ? How important is authenticity ? I’ve read there’s a special hammerite colour they used but would it be totally unacceptable to paint the saw any colour ?
I have no spraying facilities but would it be possible to brush paint it and if so what kind of paint is best to use ? Enamel etc ?
And what about removing the old paint ? Is it best to strip it or just sand smooth and primer ?
3. What’s the best way to restore the table ? Sand with fine grade wet and dry – or would that be too brutal ?

Think I’ll leave it there as a start. I’m going to need some advise about removal and replacement of the bearings but we can come back to that another time.
Thanks for now and thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
Pictures below are from the sellers advert.

picture1
https://photos.app.goo.gl/R9yl7qSMRXEHC6bN2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/g7kIlrLtcAH2mbRr2
picture4

 

[topchippyles]

I have a few wadkin machines in my shop and in all honesty they are pretty bombproof ,You should have grease nipples where ever there are working parts,If the saw looks and runs well then ideal.The fence would need a repair or replacement though.

 

[Vann]

There are several schools of thought on paint, paint colours, or not repainting at all. In the end, no matter how flash the paint job, it doesn't affect the work to saw does. It's your machine, you can paint it any colour you like.
I have a handful of Wadkin machines. One I've completely repainted (brush) in the closest to original colour I could find. Others will keep their patina anf battle scars.
I think your machine would have originally come in a hammered green.
Cheers Vann.

 

[Vann]

...I think your machine would have originally come in a hammered green.

On reflection I'm not so sure. I have parts off a 1956 Wadkin which was originally a light grey, and off a 1974 Wadkin which was originally hammered green. I believe the change was made in the early to mid 1960s, so you would have to look in obscure places to find parts that won't have been repainted during it's life (inside the cast/mild steel frame or under the tag) to be sure.

As for the rust on the table (and other machined surfaces) a razor blade in a holder will "shave" most of the surface rust off - you have to get the angle right. After that it's a fine emery cloth or wet and dry with something like WD-40. Some people use Evaporust. Others a cup wire brush in an angle grinder - this has the potential to remove a little cast-iron as well (not enough to cause inaccuracy, but using a brass wire brush will reduce that).

For the fence locking handle, you'll almost certainly need to make a repair (if you can find a NOS part it'll probably cost an arm and a leg). Measure the diameter and the number of threads per inch and we can probably tell you the thread (most likely BSW). You can then go about organising a new handle (the knob should simply screw off).

Good luck, and keep the photos coming.

Cheers Vann.

 

[Krysstel]

Thanks for the replies so far

What about rust removal from the rest of the saw components ? And buffing/polishing ?
I've seen others restore the handles and other bits to a high polish and it's that level of finish I'm hoping to match. Are there any special buffing wheels I can mount in a pillar drill for instance ?

When it comes to that fence locking handle. Is it screwed into the cam or is the cam and rod machined as one piece ?

I suspect the saw has only a splitter type of riving knife and not the kind that raises and lowers with the blade. Anyone know when the latter type were introduced ? I believe my saw is from 1963 - but I'm not 100% sure.

Cheers
Mark

 

[memzey]

I have a Wadkin BGS10 from 1963 and can confirm it was originally painted green from the factory. It also has a splitter as opposed to a full riving knife. I suspect yours will be the same.

 

[wallace]

The paint on the main body looks in good shape, maybe you could match the colour and maybe paint the edges of the table.
To clean the table I have found the quickest way is to use a ROS followed by a brass wire wheel then back to the sander going down to maybe 300 grit then finish off with scotchbrite by hand.
I have just cleaned up some handles like yours by putting it on the lathe and sanding to remove any chips, then go through the grits before polishing on a close stiched mop using red silverline compound.
If theirs any metal bits you want shiny then the same procedure applies, unless its a precision surface like ways, then I just use scotchbrite and wd40

 

[MusicMan]

That looks nice. It's the same as mine. Yes the riving knife is really a splitter and doesn't rise and fall (though it tilts). Ola of this place has designed and built a rise/fall accessory and has published drawings.

The Wadkin manual that you want is at http://www.wadkin.com/uploads/files/Wad ... %20(10inch)%20Old%20Manual%20&%20Parts%20List.pdf.

Looks like the fence lock handle just screws into the cam.

Keep us updated!

Keith

 

[deema]

Looks a lovely saw. If wouldn’t touch the paint, wipe down and leave it’s history.

The table top looks also fine. Using it will quickly generate a really nice pattena. I know that it’s nice to have a very shiny top.

The handle just screws into the cam as already highlighted. Easy to make a new one or just retread the end of the existing one. It won’t matter being slightly shorter.

They are a really nice saw.

 

[SammyQ]

Wot others have said re restoration; it's a matter of personal taste. Mine is similar vintage to yours and came without a 'humpback' dust hood. They are scarcer than feathers from angel wings; I have a 'pelican beak', same as shown in your photos, but doubt greatly if saw was built with them.

Sam

PS Careful of rear fence retaining clip breaking on thin circular 'web'...DAMHIHT.

 

[Krysstel]

The paint on the main body looks in good shape, maybe you could match the colour and maybe paint the edges of the table.
To clean the table I have found the quickest way is to use a ROS followed by a brass wire wheel then back to the sander going down to maybe 300 grit then finish off with scotchbrite by hand.
I have just cleaned up some handles like yours by putting it on the lathe and sanding to remove any chips, then go through the grits before polishing on a close stiched mop using red silverline compound.
If theirs any metal bits you want shiny then the same procedure applies, unless its a precision surface like ways, then I just use scotchbrite and wd40

Hi Wallace
Thanks for the great tips regarding polishing etc.
Any chance you could point me in the direction of an online source for the cosed stich mops, polishing compound etc ?
Thanks
Mark

 

[Krysstel]

That looks nice. It's the same as mine. Yes the riving knife is really a splitter and doesn't rise and fall (though it tilts). Ola of this place has designed and built a rise/fall accessory and has published drawings.

The Wadkin manual that you want is at http://www.wadkin.com/uploads/files/Wad ... %20(10inch)%20Old%20Manual%20&%20Parts%20List.pdf.

Looks like the fence lock handle just screws into the cam.


Hi Keith
Yes, I've seen the Ola designed rise and fall riving knife. Really great piece of work but I doubt I'll go that far unless the fixed knife really bugs me !

If it's correct that the fence locking handle originally just screwed into the cam then somethings happened over time and the threads must have been stripped. There's certainly no longer any threads in the hole on the cam nor on the handle bar. Looks also like someone has at one time tried to braze or weld the handle in place but this has also failed. I think the best solution will be to drill and tap a new hole on the otherside of the cam and make a new handle bar. I'll be looking into that later.

Couldn't open you pdf link



Keep us updated!

Keith

 

[Krysstel]

Thanks for all the help so far.

Got the saw home safely yesterday and have started stripping it down.
Appears to be in really good condition and been well looked after. Motor proved to be a dual voltage 230/400V as I suspected so no problems there. Fence rails are almost unworn and are graduated in millimeters not inches

Created a new Google Album and will post new pictures there. Please let me know if for some reason it's not accessable.
AGS10 Album

 

[MusicMan]

Got the Google pics with no trouble. That looks a nice version of the Wadkin, you have the wider table. And millimetres indeed! Look forward to seeing more.

Keith

 

[Krysstel]

I'm aware of the scepticism towards the use of dado blades but I'm intending to install one anyway
I'll be using the saw only in a hobby environment, not professionally.

The factory handbook says the saw can take a maximum 6" diameter x 11/16" thick dado stack.
Have checked around a bit and I can probably get hold of an 8" blade to fit a 25mm diameter arbor but cannot find anyone who makes a 6"/25mm.
(my saw has the optional 25mm arbor, not the standard 5/8").

Is there any reason why an 8" cannot be used ?
Perhaps the recommended maximum 6" was because most saws had only a 5/8" arbor ?

Mark

 

[Fitzroy]

Not sure if it’s a good reason or even the correct reason but...... I have a kity 618 that doesn’t have a great range of height adjustment. So I’m often changing blade from a 190mm to a 260mm. On start up the saw draws way more power spinning the 260mm blade up, noticeable in how much more the lights dim! An 8” dado stack will be pretty heavy and that could be the issue, current draw on startup.

F.

 

[Krysstel]

Maybe. An AGS10 is apparently capable of taking a 300mm normal blade. I'll try to check the weight difference between that and an 8" dado.

 

[memzey]

I run an 8” dado on my BGS10” without any problems. I think the rule of thumb was that 6” was the limit for 2hp saws and 8” sets required at least 3hp.

 

[Krysstel]

Sounds likely.
My saw has a 3hp motor, as well as having a 25mm arbor.

Does your saw have the more standard 5/8" arbor ?
I'm actually having trouble finding a dado set to fit my 25mm arbor - but havn't given up yet

 

[memzey]

5/8th on my machine (a 1963 Wadkin BGS10). Forrest will sell you a dado stack with a 25mm arbor (make sure it’s that and not 1” when you order it though). Are you sure it’s not an AGS12? Most of them had 1” arbors as standard.