Startrite 352E or Hammer N3800

[Phil Ryder]

Hello everybody.

I am sure a band saw topic can be a hot topic and lots of people talk about them, but was wondering if anyone out there could help of advise me on those particular saws or has even direct experience with them, or can suggest a better option for max £1200?

My position is that I am setting up my little workshop and as a first and perhaps last bigger machine in that available space, it will be a band saw.
why band saw? because I think it is a very versatile machine and quiet, well, not as loud as a table saw and now as quiet as a hand saw for example, but reasonable quiet.

I've been doing my research and budgeting and came down to the saws named above.

the only thing is that the Hammer N3800 won't take an 1" blade, which I thought should be the minimum for the saw I want to buy, as this machine should do jobs other machines would, should do. the Hammer has a bit more capacity in height and throat.

Does anyone think that there is a significant difference between a 20mm and a 25mm blade to achieve a relatively smooth and straight cut when resawing? or is it all down to the sharpness of the blade?

or does anyone has any other suggestion?

I live in the midlands, UK.

would appreciate some comments.

cheers,

Philipp.

 

[deema]

I have a Startrite 14S5, it can take a 3/4" blade which I often use to rip seasoned European oak up to 8" thick. The thing I like about the machine is that I can slow the blade down and with a 3 or 4 tpi it rips very happily everything I've thrown at it. It was secondhand and came with the original fence which is very good and has a really nice micro adjuster. The machine has solid metal blade guides which work very well and I have never seen the need to upgrade to bearing guides. The saw will cut most things with 5 speeds available.

I have acquired some lignum vitae and plan on making my own blade guides.The main reason for making some lignum guides is that I don't have a full set of metal guides and the price of a set of spares is very high for what they are

 

[beech1948]

A 352 will not adequately tension a 1" blade. I think 3/4" is about the max and then it will struggle.

I have a 352 and usually use upto 15mm wide blade and most often a 1/2".

Alan

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

How do you feel about 20Amp supply and non standard mitre slots?

 

[Phil Ryder]

Alan, do you have the newer 352 or the old one?
just wondering why they state that it will take up to 1in blades...
If thats the case I might lean towards the hammer..

deema, the 14S5 looks sweet if its in nice and good condition. the different speeds make it attractive.

ROB, don't have one yet but will have 16-32amp a week after I'll pick up the phone to my sparky. not so sure what you mean by the non standard mitre slots. startrite having 2 and hammer 1? that it?

 

[JustBen]

My 2hp homemade bandsaw can cut 10" hardwood straight and smooth using a 3/4" blade.

The think I've found to help the most is the blade (Tuffsaws, of course)

I don't know what power the two BS you mention have but I bet it's more than 2hp so I would have thought 3/4" on those would be fine.

Ian at Tuffsaws may be able to help. He might know those Saws and what they are capable of.
After all, he speaks to people with bandsaws everyday.

It might be of help.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

No...the Hammer has a proprietary slot width which is unique to Hammer. So instead of 3/4" which takes all the after market fences its their own standard. Of course the Hammer mitre fence is then a chargeable option at around £55. The Startrite has industry standard 3/4" slots.

Now its not such a biggy because lets face it a bandsaw is not a precision angle cutting tool so very few would bother to buy an after market fence. It just annoyed me a bit that they go non standard and then don't even provide a free mitre fence with the saw (which every other supplier does just about). Ironically, I don't believe startrite ship with a free mitre fence either but at least they have 3/4" slots.

The bandwheels and tyres on the hammer are excellent but the tensioning spring is quite wimpy so buyer beware on the published specs of the manufacturers in terms of max blade widths. Its safe to say that pretty much every published max, you can deduct an eighth or even quarter inch off to be in the real world. Startrite are known for their beefy tensioning assemblies so their's are most likely to be reasonable. But another poster said, he goes lighter than the spec says. Marketing people....they all want castrating!!!

 

[Peter Sefton]

Hi I have and use the Hammer N4400 on a daily basis this also has a max blade width of 20mm but I have never found this to be a problem on my more powerful machine. I have not used the Startrite but would offer up these comments from what I can see.
They are both 2HP so the same power, not sure either would need a 20AMP supply my 4HP runs from a 16AMP
The Startrite has a better/higher position for the dust extraction
I think the Hammer guides will be better to set up and easier to adjust no tools required
The Startrite fence is the old style Hammer one now superseded with the better high/low left and right handed newer version which I bought at a later date
The Startrite does have a kick stop button, but I don't see the need for that on a bandsaw

They might both be on display at the Midlands Woodworking show in a couple of weeks time http://www.nelton.co.uk/midlands-woodwo ... -show.html ring the guys and enquire if they are taking them, I find the best way to compare machines is side by side at a show.

I will be demonstrating at the show come and say hello if you can make it.

I would go for the Hammer as mine has been very good and I do love my Felder kit, but I am a Hammer convert (not salesman) but I will be demonstrating at their in house show on the 5th April for them and the school.

Cheers and happy shopping Peter

 

[beech1948]

Phil,

I have a 4yr old 352E, a 25+ yr old original 352. They are different in some ways but I feel after using my 352E for 2 yrs that my advice is about right.

Others may differ and I wait to hear from them.

Alan

 

[Phil Ryder]

cheers Ben.
homemade? wow! any pics?

both BS have 2hp.

Will get in touch with Ian. cheers for the tip!

so Rob, you are saying that even the N3800 won't hold a 20mm blade? that would be a shame.
cant really go for the n4400 because I still need a extraction system as my ctl26 probably isn't powerful enough.
any thought about that btw? what is the minimum extraction power you need for machines like this?

 

[marcros]

No...the Hammer has a proprietary slot width which is unique to Hammer. So instead of 3/4" which takes all the after market fences its their own standard. Of course the Hammer mitre fence is then a chargeable option at around £55. The Startrite has industry standard 3/4" slots.
!!!

Are the startrite slots standard depth though? I have a feeling not- certainly not on table saw threads I have been reading.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

good question, no idea on that one

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

so Rob, you are saying that even the N3800 won't hold a 20mm blade? that would be a shame.
cant really go for the n4400 because I still need a extraction system as my ctl26 probably isn't powerful enough.
any thought about that btw? what is the minimum extraction power you need for machines like this?

Not necessarily in the specific case of the Felder machines because I've never used one. I'm generalising in that most people report their bandsaws fail to tension correctly for the widest blade the manufacturer claims it can take by about 1/4" typically. I hear it time and time again. Startrite even make a big song and dance about the fact their huge tension spring assemblies have been tested to 20,000lb/sq inch in an effort to convince burn victims that there will be no tensioning problems. So it's a possibility but not a certainty and you would be wise to have the claims corroborated by objective customers so you can get to the truth behind the brochures.

Having said all this, both Startrite and Felder are very well regarded as industrial strength machines so whichever you choose you're not going to go too far wrong.

 

[wallace]

Have you thought about wadkin stuff, a BZB or a DR. I have a 30"DR only problem is its quite noisy

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

All 3 phase though are they not?

 

[Phil Ryder]

thanks Bob. it was the first time yesterday that I hear that manufacturers are exaggerate about blade width.
as said, good selling point to some but would they also stand up for a knackered machine if used properly? I guess not.
its a shame as the width was a selling point for me the whole time. hmmm...

only 1phase machines for me Wallace. and can't be bigger than a Hammer.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Phil.....I'm going through this myself right now as Ive just sold my Record Power BS300 with a view to upgrading to larger capacities and more robustness generally for cutting wood turning blanks direct from the log. If it helps here is my shortlist. I am currently favouring the RP BS400 because I want 13amp plus beef plus capacity. At only 10KG lighter than the Hammer, the BS 400 is a very sturdy machine as well as being £300 cheaper. I also was very impressed with my smaller 300, it cut very efficiently and never let me down over a 5 year period. Maybe this will help you..

Just click on the image to see it in sharp focus. I only put the 300 down so I could see the contrast with the capacities of the other machines. I've reviewed all except the 352 with visual detailed inspection and the 400 is a very very solid machine.

Lastly, a lot of people seem to overlook the 5 yr warranty from RP. That's a lot of peace of mind out into the future!!

 

[Phil Ryder]

hi Bob. thanks for the spread sheet. good to see everything lined up like this.
I saw the bs400 at the Tewkesbury show last week and for a while I thought thats the machine I'll get.
I think it is very good value for the money, and the show offer is £899.
this week the RP show is in kidderminster and I assume the same offer stands.
now, I am in the position to get the 352E a bit cheaper and I don't mind to pay a little more for it.

did you think the table of the bs400 is as solid as a rock. just wondering how it would handle to cut down large logs.
I know the 352 and hammer are very solid.

and as Alan said that band saws dont take the blade width as advertised, will it influence your decision for the bs400?

also hammer takes 6-8weeks at the moment.......guess that tells me to take more time to make up my mind..

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

hi Bob. thanks for the spread sheet. good to see everything lined up like this.
I saw the bs400 at the Tewkesbury show last week and for a while I thought thats the machine I'll get.
I think it is very good value for the money, and the show offer is £899.
this week the RP show is in kidderminster and I assume the same offer stands.
now, I am in the position to get the 352E a bit cheaper and I don't mind to pay a little more for it.

did you think the table of the bs400 is as solid as a rock. just wondering how it would handle to cut down large logs.
I know the 352 and hammer are very solid.

and as Alan said that band saws dont take the blade width as advertised, will it influence your decision for the bs400?

also hammer takes 6-8weeks at the moment.......guess that tells me to take more time to make up my mind..

Hi Phil

The BS400 table is undoubtedly solid, one of its main attractions in fact and one of the key issues that attracts me because of my primary need being wood turning blanks. Don't forget I come from the 300 which I only sold last weekend to a lovely chap on this very forum. The 300 table was already solid enough for logs, it was only the capacity under the guides I needed more of. So I'm 100% certain the 400 table is great. Record Power are known for their huge use of cast iron in all their tools so that's pretty much a no brainer in fact. If you look at the weight on the specs its considerably heavier than the 352. Now that's obviously also related to its overall size but believe me the table is very rigid indeed. A max width of 3/4" is fine for me even if its published max is 1" because again I'm not terribly fussed about perfectly straight cuts in planks cut from logs. I would see that step as a job for the planer after the drying process if the stock wont get used in turning. I've resawn 6" oak on the 300 many times with a 1/2" blade and although you go at a steady pace, it absolutely ate it no problems and that's only a 1 HP motor. I met with the Hammer team at Detling last Friday and he offered a deal on the 3800 of £1250 delivered. Mitre fence and wheel kit are extra. There's no doubt that is a solid machine but I personally don't like the non std mitre slot (though the 400 also has a proprietary one), don't like the 20amp supply, didn't rate the tension spring assembly, it seemed very wimpy. Did really rate the guide assemblies. They are toolless and very chunky, liked them a lot. Really didn't like the price as even with deal from the sales manager at the show, with wheel and mitre fence, near to £1400. Ouch. The 352 I like because it has all the robustness of Startrites. I just don't like the short changing on the capacities. If Startrite did a 16" bandsaw with a foot under the guides that was still 13amp...that would do it for me. But you jump from the 14" 352 to the 18" 502 or go down the 401 path which is over 2 grand because its industrial rated for continuous use. The 400 is so close in robustness to the startrites (you Know RP and Startrite are the same company I presume) that I'm sold.

 

[wallace]

I wouldn't rule out 3 phase stuff. Bandsaws have small motors so in theory you could get something industrial and then get a vfd which would run off a 13a supply and give you the benefits of breaking and various speed for ripping and such. All could be achieved within your budget