Silverline #4

[G S Haydon]

This was a spur of the moment purchase. I bought this plane to hack apart to experiment with some shop made tools. Before I did that I was curious as to how well it would perform.

It was £13.00 via UK Amazon so my expectation was low. However it turned out to be not so bad.

The main issues are a tote (handle) that is a touch to small and requires a bit of extra shaping, a cap iron screw that was too slim and a bit of chipped finish.

Those things aside it was OK. Sure, details such as the lateral adjustment lever were not so hot but being honest I think you could get pretty good use out of this plane, especially if you work mild timbers such as Cherry, Oak or Pine.

The tune up was easy too. Flatten the sole, sharpen the blade and get a good fit between cap iron and cutting iron. That was it!

Do I think you need to buy one? That was not really the point of the process, just a few basic steps and look at the results.

The biggest thing I reflected on was the potential. Literally if you doubled the cost of the plane to £26.00 or even £30.00 and spent a bit more time on effort on production you'd have an excellent tool. I wonder if anyone would ever be bold enough to do so. From where I'm sitting Stanley, the people who made these planes famous, are well placed to launch these again.

Video here if you can bear it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kURYRhTDzMg

 

[Trafalgar]

"From where I'm sitting Stanley, the people who made these planes famous, are well placed to launch these again."

Stanley USA still make Bailey pattern planes. They never stopped as far as I know. They don't make the full line any longer though.

http://www.stanleytools.com/default.asp ... GENUMBER=2

Scroll down:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... ley+planes

 

[Woodchips2]

Thanks Graham, I enjoyed the video and good results after being fettled for the cost of four cups of coffee =D>

Also useful for woodwork newbies who maybe pick up a plane at a car boot sale. (hammer)

Thanks.

Regards Keith

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Nice video Graham, as usual. You just confirm here that sharpness is next to godliness when it come to hand tools. The Fettling is a good primer for anyone who wants to pep up their planes, and It shows how successful the work can be. There is a small problem with advertising how a 13 pounds plane can work well, without divulging how much the sharpening stuff costs :shock: these low cost tools are still troublesome as those who buy them simply because they have no investment in sharpening and fettleing equipment and likely never will at the bugets they are working with.

What brand is your 12000 grit Waterstone and what are you planning for the plane--a transitional perhaps.

Mike.

 

[novocaine]

good info, thanks for looking at the lower end of the market. I was looking at a silverline number 7 before I dug in my old mans garage and found a record/stanley hybrid which is seeing me good.

might pick up a number 4 for my brother in law for christmas and give it a fettle for him. he's trying hard, so far he's up to pocket screws, next I'm going to convince him to try a box joint.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend (Wizard, late of this parish ) maintained that the only plane he had that was dead flat and dead square without work was a Silverline.

 

[bugbear]

I think for any plane that works well

cost + user skill + user fettling

is approximately constant.

BugBear

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Interesting stuff!

One possible trap with the budget planes is that the chances on getting a bad one are higher than with the more expensive planes. By the looks of it, yours was a fairly good one, Graham.

Some months ago, I bought a Faithfull No. 3 (mostly on a whim) for about £17 delivered. Out of the box, it barely worked, and careful investigation revealed quite a list of faults. Fettled up (which didn't take that long), it's quite a decent plane, though still nowhere near premium performance.

It's been said that the budget planes should be regarded as a kit of parts which, given fitting and fettling, can be made into a reasonable plane. From my experience, I'd say that was fair comment. If you're an outright beginner not sure how to go about fettling a plane, and not sure how a decent plane should perform, I'd avoid them.

 

[Cordy]

Another cheapo; not sure of the quality

http://tinyurl.com/olzqype

 

[G S Haydon]

Charles, I chose my words carefully. "are well placed to launch these again". I bought a modern Stanley, the worst tool I have ever bought. I could have been unlucky but this is what I found. Hollow plastic handles ready to break at a moments notice, I find that to be unforgivable. Plastic is a pragmatic and excellent choice for tools if correctly specified. Hollow, thin rubbish was a stupid move by the accounts department. In addition the casting was awful, again could have been a dud but it looked to of been prepped on 40grit. Then there was the price, between £40 >£60 depending where you shop was insulting. Time to "launch these again" with a view to quality taking a sensible change and not it terms of polished surfaces and exotic wood. Just solid workmanlike details. I dislike being rude or brutal about anything in this world but for hate's sake I would spit my last breath at that POS stanley #4 :lol: 8)

Keith, thank you . I just hope it did not come over as "you should go for one" or "do it this way" . Merely it was an experiment. Important factors are a flat enough sole, sharp iron, stable foundation for handles and tote, a level of comfort, adjustments that work and a cap iron able to control surface finish. Although in need of some work the Silverline was able to do it's job. I still like anything plane shaped and I still feel that the best value tool is still the WoodRiver/Quangsheng that Peter & Matthew offer, even if you can only stretch to one, say a smoother it'll surely save a massive amount of time fooling around.

Hey Mike, cheers dude . Yes the right level or more than the right level of sharp will get you to a very happy way of working. Agreed on the sharpening media too, however it creates and interesting choice. You'll need a decent sharpening setup regardless and as I touch on in the video honey badger don't give a $h!t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg about how anyones sharpens and on what. I was tempted to smash a lump of slate off an old worktop with a sledgehammer and sharpen on that (I'm serious) but I only have so much time. But I will do that video soon.
The stones are shapton, seem good value. I've had 'em for about 3 or four months. Not sure how I feel about them but they seem ok. On the plane, I'm going to keep tight lipped. Something to look forward to or not as the case might be (hammer)

Novocaine, it might be worth doing that or doing what I did might p!ss him off and put him off . If he's new he might want to consider something that works out of the box so to speak. But for £13 it could be used as a novelty door stop!

Seems fair BB

CC yes and yes! If you are a total newb without a friendly woodbutcher to guide you it could be a waste of time. And regardless most people don't rock the total no power way of working. The cost of 1 x decent smoother, although high, would be a worthy purchase for most.

Cheers for the link Cordy. Problem with that devil is it looks to have the curse of the hollow plastic handle!

 

[Trafalgar]

I see now Graham... sorry for that.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The honey badger vid is hilarious! Thanks.

Slate is a great sharpening medium, and I suppose it matters little where the lump comes from, give it a try. I used slate for many years and still do on occasion. Not quite as fine as 6000 water stones and not as fast, but quicker than most media of similar fineness, doesn't dish as quickly as water stones, but does and is relatively quick to flatten. It is swings and rounabouts as all sharpening media. I said before, two out of three is only ever possible regarding quality, speed and price. But whatever, you have to have something that works!

I got 10 Silverline block planes for school, and the quality was too poor. I got them working and used the ruler trick (essential!) but they just don't work well enough. I got another 10 Axminster ones for about twice the price and they were more than twice as good. Still needing fettling, but way better initially. I do think your #4 was better quality than th silver line I bought, so it is a lottery. Your fettling regime applied to a vintage Record or Stanley is still th best bet, for beginner or expert.

I look forward to the plane project.

Mike.

 

[G S Haydon]

Charles, no need for sorry. Stanley could do with a sorry for the POS plane I got .

Mike, It's a great way to respond to the classic forum banter of "you shouldn't be doing it like that" fun and games.

I thought about giving the block a try but resisted as agreed budget on woodworking is gone for this Month. Good to hear Axminster are offering a down to earth but useable option! Also agree, I'll state again this was no rally cry to buy cheap *** planes. Simply a not very scientific experiment. What school do you work in, furniture making I assume?

 

[Vann]

Stanley USA still make Bailey pattern planes. They never stopped as far as I know. They don't make the full line any longer though.

I'm fairly sure that's not right Charles. Blood & Gore suggests Stanley stopped making the No.3, No.4 & No.5 in the USA in 1984 (the last Stanley bench planes made in USA). Rex Mill suggests it was a year earlier.

In UK they started in ~1936 and stopped in ~2004. In Australia they started in ~1963 and had stopped by 2001. I can't find any info on Canadian Stanleys. Current Stanleys are made for Stanley in the far east. Modern Stanley Sweethart No.4s are assembled in Mexico - but they're not Bailey pattern.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[woodbrains]

Charles, no need for sorry. Stanley could do with a sorry for the POS plane I got .

Mike, It's a great way to respond to the classic forum banter of "you shouldn't be doing it like that" fun and games.

I thought about giving the block a try but resisted as agreed budget on woodworking is gone for this Month. Good to hear Axminster are offering a down to earth but useable option! Also agree, I'll state again this was no rally cry to buy cheap *** planes. Simply a not very scientific experiment. What school do you work in, furniture making I assume?

Hello,

D and T Product Design in a secondary school for, ahem, Girls! :lol: we do quite a bit of wood stuff, the exam classes usually have a few furniture projects going on and we have done chair projects with the lower school recently. But it is across the board really, bits of metalwork and a fair amount of CAD CAM, laser cutting CNC routing though small scale equipment. We even have a 3D printer which is a pain, actually. It is all good fun.

Mike.

 

[G S Haydon]

Excellent Mike! It's great to hear modern ways of doing thing are there alongside some more old school stuff, must be fun to be part of it!

Van, I might have this wrong but I think Charles is right. You can buy new Stanley planes from stores in the uk without issue.

 

[Zeddedhed]

For what it's worth here's my observations on planes of different costs:

I have a small selection of hand planes which get used most days for mainly final prep of stock and occasionally for an alternative to machining (although not that often)

Normally I'll prep stock with machines and then hand plane to rid me of the ripples (and 'cause I like it)

I don't have any expensive planes save for a recently acquired No 4 1/2 Veritas smoother.
What I have observed is that if sharp, they all do pretty much exactly the same thing. I only sharpen to 1000 g on DMT stones and the end result is more than satisfactory.
The soles are all judged by putting the plane on a flat surface (my table saw) and checking if they feel ok (no pivoting etc) and then off we go.

The best finish I routinely get from any plane is from my Ulmia German smoother ( a wooden plane) with it's hornbeam sole.

I can only assume that this is a result of the wooden sole adding a burnishing effect to the wood.

I recently bought a Faithfull No 4 brand new for £22 and performed the above routine (feels OK on TS, sharpen to 1000g, re-assemble and then start work) if you can call it a routine and it delivers results equally as good as the Veritas, the Stanleys, the Records and some ancient no name bog-ugly piece of metal that occasionally gets dragged out.

This doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the quality of something like the Veritas - I just don't think it's what we need to get better results. A bit like sharpening. 20,000g may make your tool sharper, but does it matter?

I'm not sure. But then, most of you probably use hand planes more than I do.

By the way, this isn't meant to start a row - just saying....

 

[Vann]

Van, I might have this wrong but I think Charles is right. You can buy new Stanley planes from stores in the uk without issue.

Yes, new Stanley planes are available in New Zealand too*, but my point was, they're not made in USA as Charles suggested, nor in the UK. They may even be made in the same factory as the Silverline.

* they're amazingly expensive here, at the best part of $200 :shock:

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

How does that compare to Veritas, Quangsheng etc.? I was in NZ about 17 years ago ago and did the rounds of Auckland's finest tool emporia with my bil (he was a ship's carpenter by trade, and he and my sister, nephew and niece are now jafas ) and found British made tools half the price there that they were here. American stuff was half the price of this Country's as well. I was there again about 10 years ago and the difference wasn't great then.

 

[G S Haydon]

Sorry Vann