Dust Masks

[xraymtb]

What do people recommend in terms of dust masks/respiratory protection?

A Trend Airshield is a bit pricey at this stage - especially when I've so many other things to buy as a beginner.

My options as I see it are paper masks or the 3M type silicon masks. Any opinions?

I am using extraction at the lathe when sanding already but it doesn't capture everything.

 

[WoodMangler]

A Trend Airshield is a bit pricey at this stage - especially when I've so many other things to buy as a beginner.

I can't praise my Airshield too highly - I used to get all sorts of dust-related coughs, sneezes, chest aches and eye irritations, all gone now. I don't just use it for turning, it comes in handy for anything dusty - bulk sanding wood, sanding off old lead paint, sweeping out the shed, stacking dusty hay in the barn, etc.

Despite the expense, I'd say get it now, and avoid the otherwise inevitable slow degradation of your lung functionality.

 

[John. B]

I have an Airshield, have had it for years but it's not all that comfortable.

So I use a 3M 6491 particulate/gas/vapour respirator which is very comfortable (I wear specs, does not mist)

It's at a good price @£17. 07. Cuts out not only dust but even smells (when I am spraying lacquer or something)

I use an overspray guard which extends the life of the mask considerably @£3.73 for 10

Then PP @£2.08 total £23.45

John. B

 

[CHJ]

......A Trend Airshield is a bit pricey at this stage - ....

Any idea how expensive a new set of lungs are?

Sorry to say but effective personal dust protection is likely to cost you more than all your other basic lathe tools combined.

This is the sort of stuff you could be ingesting after a day in and around the lathe shed and this is in a shed where the extraction to outside is extensive.

 

[xraymtb]

Genuine question here - what makes an Airshield with its P2 filter better than a 3M half mask with a P2 or even P3 filter? Both draw the same air through a filter and the 3M could have a more effective filter fitted?

As I said genuine question.

 

[CHJ]

The basic difference with any full face air fed mask is that the whole of you facial area is in a positive clean air envelope. (and of course the ability to contain an impact protection shield)
One of the important factors with mask certification is their ability to ensure you do not drag contaminated air back in past the mask if you take a deep breath.
Half face masks don't have this positive air flow security envelope.
Does not matter how good the cartridges are if you are drawing air from around the edges of the mask you are not protected.

A lot allergic reactions to wood dust and associated chemicals occur when you get them in the mucus layers of your eyes so it's no only your lungs you need to protect.

 

[Robbo3]

Using the principle that blowing is better than sucking, I have a 4" bathroom extractor fan mounted on an an external wall so that it blows inward.

To the fan spigot I can attach either a stiff flexi-pipe to blow sanding dust away from the lathe (& towards the extractor mouth), or I can attach a flexible 4" hose to a spigot on top of my face mask which then blows a gentle breeze down across my face.

Not suitable for everyone because of the need for a hole in an external wall & you probably don't want an icy blast, or even a gentle one, if you turn in the depths of winter.

The method was taken from an old article in The Best of Fine Woodworking. If anyone is further interested I'll see if I can get a couple of photos.

Regards
Robbo

 

[deema]

A dust mask has to fit your face precisely otherwise it will allow dust Leiden air to get inside. If you move your face at all, the chances are that a gap will appear in the seal around your face and dust will get in. The mask works on your lungs sucking air through the mask, it creates a negative pressure within the mask, if there is any gap, the air pressure will be balanced by the route of least resistance. The filter system creates a resistance and hence you will draw in air from any gap in the seal around your face in preference to the filters.

The filters are all if certified of an equal standard.

A full face shield or helmet system creates a positive pressure within the mask preventing this problem occurring. The Trend Airshield has a small motor that pulls air through the filters and then distributes it into the face shield. The are no issues wit any gaps, as this creates a positive air pressure.

The ther main advantage is that any face mask maes you sweat where it's in contact with the face. Inevitably dust sticks to the moist bits and therefore is in constant contact with you skin. It will inevitably get inside the mask.

The attend air shield is great value for money. Ok it's a little heavy at first, and takes a little bit of adjusting to get it comfy. BUT, the positive pressure will keep the dust out, your face won't get sweaty, and if you don't try Towbar it all day on its first outing, your neck muscles attain tone very quickly and you won't notice it at all.

There are better helmet systems however most of these have the battery pack that mounts on your back or belt. This reduces the weight, but requires a breather tube to connect the two. This I have found gets in the way. These systems are far more expensive and for the small workshop not aspractic al I feel.

The Trend Airshield has the added bonus of having protection for your eyes built in. When ever you need a dust mask, you probably need some form of eye protection as well. Wearing a face mask and googles leads to the two competing for space on your face, and is usually not very comfortable.

A face mask cam also reduce your downward vision compared to a helmet face shield. Not as safe.

The trend Airshield ear defenders make the system much easier to wear, they help keep the helmet in place without having to tighten the straps too much. However, the ear defenders are not very good for keeping the noise out. I would recommend additional ear protection as well as the ear defenders I.e. internal ear defenders

 

[nicguthrie]

Just thought I'd pop in to give my opinion here, as I've been looking into dust masks an awful lot and trying to choose the right one for myself.

I've tried the Trend Airshield and I must say it wasn't for me. I agree the protection is first class, it really does feel like breathing fresh clean air with no added strain in breathing as you try to pull air through a restrictive filter. The reason I personally wouldn't choose it is two things. One- although it avoided the sweatiness from an un-powered full face mask, the air movement directly around my face made my eyes water after an hour or so. Two- although the weight of the filter, motor and battery in the helmet is not massive, after a couple hours wear while looking down the increased weight starts to make my neck ache. At 6 foot 2 I also found that the opaque base of the face shield made me need to bend my neck further than usual to see things near my chest or at the near side of the workbench. Oh, another thing is the ear defenders you can add to the airshield are awful, and the bulk of the helmet makes wearing your own over the head types impossible, so you need to add either behind the neck defenders or in-ear plugs.

I've tried full face un-powered masks and the sweating in a warm workshop in the area around the eyes and forehead can get pretty impossible, since this area is totally sealed to air movement and therefore heat build up. The weight is better, and the visual obstruction is about the same. A positive thing was that the good filters are surprisingly easy to breathe through. I'd expected as much resistance as some of the cheap paper ones I've had in the past (I have lung problems and notice resistance really easily) but the decent 3m ones surprised me at how imperceptible they were.

Personally I've settled for a passive un-powered 3M half face mask and a plain cheap and open around the edges turner's visor. This gives me face protection, allows me to wear glasses and doesn't steam them up or make me sweat. I can still get dust in my eyes though, but I could, I guess easily enough wear goggles under the face shield/visor if I'm working on something spectacularly messy.

Obviously this is just my opinion, I'm even open to suggestions, but it's the best solution I've been able to find to the same question you seem to have.

Oh, and be warned, the replaceable filters on the 3m masks can still work out fairly expensive over time, a pack of them from axminster is about £50 so there's really no cheap option, just an option that's right for you.

And I'd suggest avoiding paper masks, they don't fit well, they're obstructive to your breathing, and altogether not very good at doing the job, just better than nothing.

Nic.

 

[Chrisnw]

I have an airshield and I wish I had purchased it first before any other tools or an extractor. As much as the extractor removed dust at source I still ended up with horrible dusty bogies which must only account for a tiny proportion of what I was breathing in. Whilst my glasses fit under a face mask the addition of any form of mask always causes a mist up so I avoided sanding with a mask on. I'd go so far as to say that I became so paranoid about sanding that I didn't bother finishing anything and it put me off going to the lathe on more than one occasion.

To counter this I tried on the JSP Power cap and the Airshield and I found the powercap marginally more comfortable. In the end I went with the airshield, because of the price and the better level of protection if i recall correctly.

As for the weight - it doesnt bother me since I am used to wearing heavy helmets regularly at work. I have the ear defenders too but don't use them too much. Noisewise, I can't hear the radio whilst wearing it unless it is turned up and have worn an mp3 instead.

 

[EnErY]

I own The powercap and use It Every Time I Go In My workshop I Think personally its the bassness and have not worried about expense when you consider health to be more important also i still got the extraction going all the time i'm in there i find it very pleasing in warm weather with the cool air passing over your face and have no worries about weight etc it all comes down to one thing and personal protecticion is foremost with modern technology i think we can be protected quite sufficiently without having to worry about the pennies i'm new to turning and i'm looking at a box of surgical masks which were reccomended to me on the beginning of my path thro the learning curve found after using one my face and nose were full of dust tried others before settling on the procap but that was expense layed out for nothing that i could have saved by coming on forums and taking advice like you guys are giving here also by listening to more experienced turners like woody who put me onto the procap
Regards
bill

 

[wallace]

My vote goes for the 3M dustmaster. I tried the old airshield and didn't like it. I also tried the trend rubber masks but found it did not seal properly. The way I see it, you spend hundreds on machines and tools. But then spend very little on protection. I use mine for loads of stuff from turning to useing the grinder, welding even when I was grinding the mortar out on my house ready for pointing.

 

[Jensmith]

The trouble is the 3M dustmaster no longer exists unless you can get a 2nd hand one on Ebay and the 3M replacement sets you back about £700!

 

[xraymtb]

I get the positive pressure argument but even then with a P2 filter the Trend is blowing 5% of the particles into the mask. A passive mask with a P3 only allows a lot less than half of a % in if you are clean shaven and have a well fitted mask?

Surely the Trend should have P3 filters to be effective?

 

[CHJ]

Forget about the difference between P2 and P3 filters, the difference in their performance for everyday turning shop use is almost insignificant compared with the risks involved with fully loaded air getting past the mask body itself, concentrate on the mechanics involved with the mask body, just look at that course pre-filter in the previous post,(it has a P2 filter behind it) one lung full of that level of polluted air is probably equivalent to a couple of weeks worth of the difference between P2 & P3.

I'm not saying don't bother with P3, if available go for them, but they are of no use to you at all unless you can guarantee that all your breathing air is passing through them.

 

[wallace]

There are other alternatives to think about. I made a system where air can be pumped directly from outside the workshop going into a shield via a hose. Really good for when your doing lots of turning. It all worked out quite cheap. You can also utilise a compressor to feed a mask.

 

[CHJ]

..... You can also utilise a compressor to feed a mask.

Not cheaply you can't, it's extremely dangerous to use standard compressor air, it contains far too many contaminants.
Purchasing filter equipment of adequate standard to meet breathing air requirements would probably be on a par with the cost of a good positive natural air fed system.

 

[wallace]

I've never looked into the compressor option properly. I presume the air would be contaminated with oil and rusty crud from the reciever. I found an air pump that was used in military radar vehicles to cool the intruments. Works really well

 

[philb88]

These are comfy and adjustable with a padded foam surround against the face, that allows a more consistent fit that the other semi-disposable masks and less sweaty than the rubberized 3M cartridge types.