RogerS
Established Member
Nice tribute to Concorde by British Airways. Thank you Concorde for 27 supersonic years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro3QVMCG-aY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro3QVMCG-aY
Concorde memories
- Thread starter RogerS
- Start date
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woodbloke
Established Member
Roger - clearly you were never 400m behind the thing when the re-heat was lit at take off... I was just once :shock: The sound can only be described as a giant ripping telephone books in half, a deafening, rippling crackling roar. If you were you would think differently and have a little sympathy for the poor sods under the flight path. The aircraft made money towards the end of it's working life but was seen by BA staff as very much the 'jam' rather than the 'bread and butter' and the Olympus powerplants were lifted straight out of the 50's being the same units that powered the 'V' bombers - Rob
woodshavings
Established Member
Wow, that's quite a video! - made me feel quite emotional.
I was involved in its very early days with the flight data recorders used in the flight testing of the prototype aircraft.
Many years later, I was privileged to fly as a passenger from New York -(I was upgraded from a cancelled Business Class flight).
It was beautiful - exhilarating - amazing - I'll certainly not forget it.
John
I was involved in its very early days with the flight data recorders used in the flight testing of the prototype aircraft.
Many years later, I was privileged to fly as a passenger from New York -(I was upgraded from a cancelled Business Class flight).
It was beautiful - exhilarating - amazing - I'll certainly not forget it.
John
Doctor
Established Member
Seeing two radar blips merge (one being concorde) at the London Air Traffic Control Centre after a controller error on the sector 23 desk, and the two controllers and chief hold their breath for a few seconds until the blips seperated. Arrh happy days, not.
CHJ
Established Member
Was able to see quite a lot of the Brit Prototype 002 as we supported the Canberra chase aircraft. It was of course just an Ali Tube fitted with an enormous amount of monitoring hardware and associated wiring.
Got to see how a commercial outfit operated an aircraft when time means money, "can you come and fix the (Canberra) Jet Pipe Temp systems, we're currently running up the engines without them :shock: , can you provide a piggy back Oxygen system for the guy who is stood up in the cockpit taking pictures :roll:
As we lived in Tewksbury at the time often had request to call in at Dowtys and pick up "Concord Cleared" components for trials installations, wife nearly had coronary one Sat morning when I told her the Dolls Eye and Switch in her bag cost more than my months salary.
Got to see how a commercial outfit operated an aircraft when time means money, "can you come and fix the (Canberra) Jet Pipe Temp systems, we're currently running up the engines without them :shock: , can you provide a piggy back Oxygen system for the guy who is stood up in the cockpit taking pictures :roll:
As we lived in Tewksbury at the time often had request to call in at Dowtys and pick up "Concord Cleared" components for trials installations, wife nearly had coronary one Sat morning when I told her the Dolls Eye and Switch in her bag cost more than my months salary.
woodbloke
Established Member
There were few if any spares for the aircraft either so one was kept behind the bike sheds in a hanger at Thiefrow so that it could be cannibalized for bits and pieces. When I went on it, I had a tour of the aircraft inside and out and was able to have a sit down in the 'hot seat'...there was more room in an original Mini than there ever was in the cockpit of Concorde - Rob
chris_d
Established Member
Thank you Roger!
Monumental, ground-breaking and legendary! Try and give me any other British backed engineering project from the last half century that has galvanised the imagination and passion of the general public to the same degree as Concorde?
Long live British engineering (and a bit of French too)!
P.S. Please don't mention the Channel tunnel - Concorde is in a completely different league in terms of the technical challenges that it had to over come.
Monumental, ground-breaking and legendary! Try and give me any other British backed engineering project from the last half century that has galvanised the imagination and passion of the general public to the same degree as Concorde?
Long live British engineering (and a bit of French too)!
P.S. Please don't mention the Channel tunnel - Concorde is in a completely different league in terms of the technical challenges that it had to over come.
Maia28
Established Member
chris_d":yqx6vm5s said:
Don't forget the Harrier, that was also an amazing engineering feat that still hasn't quite been repeated. I accpet that it probably only galvanised the imagination of schoolboys but was just as technically challenging.
However, you could also add the fibre optic cable, Turing's computers and the hovercarft to that list. It seems we have forgotten how imaginative and resourceful we can be nowadays and lost that public spirit of adventure.
Andy
woodbloke
Established Member
So please explain why BA and Air France were the only two airlines to offer a supersonic service across the Atlantic?..and nowhere else.chris_d":3v8xhdkb said:
To say that the French only had a 'bit part' in the development of the aircraft is without doubt a gross injustice.
The Chunnel was probably as much of an engineering feat as Concorde, but not quite so glamorous or 'in your face'...do you know that when both sides of the tunnel met in mid-Channel they were only about 100mm out? Don't forget also that a tunnel under the Channel had been proposed since Napoleonic times but the technology wasn't available - Rob
chris_d
Established Member
Simples: it was a commercial disaster rescued by Anglo-French tax-payers who needed to save face. Despite this, it still inspired public excitement! However, have you forgotten the budget overrun of the Chunnel? 80%! Even the Chunnel had to be rescued.woodbloke":3kuo1ys1 said:
I was being patriotic! I agree, we couldn't have done it without the French.woodbloke":3kuo1ys1 said:
Apart from the junction tolerances which IIRC was done with the help of lasers, what else did the Chunnel really do other than move a lot of earth and dump a load of concrete in the ground? Not quite the same as overcoming fusalage elongation at Mach2, sonic boom at Mach1, engine fuel efficiency to support such speeds, delta wing stability control....woodbloke":3kuo1ys1 said:
Don't get me wrong - the Chunnel was a great achievement but it is just that another tunnel, Concorde was the first SS commercial plane!
Regards,
C
MEng
woodbloke
Established Member
...and if the 'murrican noise lobby had got their way in the mid 70's, it wouldn't have flown commercially at all.chris_d":3eeae6v2 said:
What's interesting is that after the crash, the 'fix' for the aircraft was doable but both BA and Air France withdrew the fleet and service in a heartbeat... :-k it does make you think.
Agreed the Chunnel went over, but I'd be hard pushed to find a major engineering project that came in on budjet...Olympic build maybe? :shock: - Rob (B.Ed London)
RogerS
Established Member
woodbloke":2funbzwd said:
Why? Standard Operating Practice for any aircraft folliwing a major incident.
re take-off...I was standing at the end of Biggin Hill runway when the test Vulcan took off using just the one Olympus engine slung beneath it. Awesome. I envy you, Rob.
woodbloke
Established Member
Rog - agreed, standard procedure. Ground the fleet, do the 'fix' (which as I understand was relatively straight forward) and then re-instate the service...but both BA and Air France just threw the towel in, that's what made me ponder - RobRogerS":10m9lr15 said:
CHJ
Established Member
Don't for get the simple Liquid Crystal Display amongst the minor achievements, developed by Civil Servants and Patented by the MOD so that every LCD manufactured for many years paid the British Taxpayer a royalty.
Peter T
Established Member
wizer":r3ms4ggg said:
Me to!!
Wouldn't it be nice if people in the UK could show the same appreciation for British, and French, achievements as people of other countries show for theirs.
I've never understood this habit some people have of knocking our achievements.
Building an SST at that time clearly was a huge engineering chalenge, a triumph for Britain and France, and something others, like the Russians, tried to do and failed.
We should all be proud of our engineering prowess.
RogerS
Established Member
woodbloke":2gdhng5a said:
Are you referring to the events much later on and long after Concorde was brought back into service? When Air France pulled their Concorde service?
woodbloke
Established Member
As I recollect events, shortly after 'the' crash in France, both airlines just pulled the plug and ceased operating the aircraft - Rob
maltrout512
Established Member
Sends a chill down my spine when I saw concorde
Here's one to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79LE4ty_gkM&feature=related
Here's one to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79LE4ty_gkM&feature=related
RogerS
Established Member
woodbloke":1fonu2ie said:
Ah well.. all was revealed in a book which IIRC I lent/gave/sold to another forum member years ago!
IIRC in a nutshell there were several factors:
according to the author of the book,
1) there was another near disaster involving the French Concorde and not very well documented. The flight crew had inadvertently left open the fuel tank drain cocks and had taken off from JFK for Paris. During their coffee/croissant/Gauloise break, the tanks were haemorrhaging fuel at a great rate of knots. Luckily the crew spotted a low fuel indicator and were able to land elsewhere in the US. This put the wind up Air France management.
2) Air France never made a profit from Concorde. On the other hand, BA had been making a good profit for quite a while. Then Sept 11 happened and for whatever reason the French and anything to do with France were villified by Americans. So what few US passengers were flying on the French Concorde got even fewer.
3) Air France wanted to get listed. Concorde was a millstone for them. So Air France pulled the plug on Concorde.
4) Now rumour starts. Posit a French Chairman of Air France and a French Chairman of Airbus Industrie. The very same Airbus Industrie with lots of very expensive engineers reserved for maintaining Concorde. Very expensive and experienced engineers who could be redeployed on other types. One could imagine a conversation by the Air France chairman along the lines of 'we can't have those English being the only nation to fly a commercial SST, can we'. One can imagine a gleam in the eye of the Airbus chairman.
5) But there was a fly in the ointment. Under the Treaty of Rome (IIRC) if a company is in a position of sole provider then if their customers still require maintenance services then they must provide them.
6) One can only raise conjecture as to the conversations/deals/offers/whatever that may or may not have gone on between BA (who were in a position to insist on continued support) and Airbus. Suffice to say BA must have come to the conclusion that they could take their Concorde passengers and fill up their First Class seats.
The rest, sadly, is history.
With regard to the original crash, my understanding is that the court case is/was due to start in France this year. My French isn't good enough to try and google that.
EDIT: Due to start 2 Feb 2010 and end in May 2010.
