Evolution of the Record 52 1/2 quick release vice
- Thread starter nabs
- Start date
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thanks gwr - I was trying to see if it is possible to date Parkinson's vices but I suspect it will be very hard to tie down to a very narrow date range. Here is what I found out:
We know the Parkinson perfect instantaneous grip was made from 1895 onwards, the earliest picture I can find of the woodworkers' model is from the Charles Nurse 1891 catalogue*, and it shows a design I have not seen elsewhere:
... possibly this is the very first model?
After the model with a front jaw like yours is introduced there are some variations (some have a long rear carriage, some short; some have three holes to mount a wood insert to the front jaw others two) but I haven't been able to find any evidence that would match dates to the features.
The only aspect I am reasonably confident about is that at some point Parkinson's moved the spring from under the half nut to behind the front jaw/next to the lever.
I am not sure why having the spring near the trigger is a better solution, but it was clearly the later development and the one that caught on in all subsequent QR vices of this type. I can't find out exactly when this changed occurred, but I believe it happened after Record started manufacturing their QR vice (1917/18 earliest) because Record made both kinds early on. This is based on an assumption that if Parkinson had already discovered that changing the location of the spring was a better design then Record would have copied them immediately when they launched their version. It is also possible, of course, that Record were the originators of the change rather than Parkinson.
I did manage to find a late-ish catalogue entry with both the Parky that looks like yours (including 3 screw holes in the face) and the Record model that would eventually render it obsolete:
https://archive.org/details/illustrated ... us+grip%29
archive.org has this catalogue dated as 1910, but there is no date on the catalogue and I do not think it can really have been produced before 1927, which is when Miller Falls introduced their electric drills (see p. 80 where they are listed)
As you can see, Record undercut the price of the Parkinson vice and, since theirs' was clearly a superior design, my guess is that they would have quickly eroded Parky's sales. Indeed, by 1930 pretty much all UK QR vice production had switched to using a Record-like design (even Parkinson had a 'perfect' version) and by 1935, at least according to the Buck & Hickman's catalogue, the old Parky pattern was no longer available.
so after all that, we can conclude (what you had probably known anyway
), that your vice was most likely made in the 1920s.
*available, with other catalogues, from taths.org if you sign up as a paying member.
Buck & Hickman 1930:
If I had to guess then I would say this is the final version of the 'Parky pattern' (including two screws and short rear carriage).
B&H 1935:
We know the Parkinson perfect instantaneous grip was made from 1895 onwards, the earliest picture I can find of the woodworkers' model is from the Charles Nurse 1891 catalogue*, and it shows a design I have not seen elsewhere:
... possibly this is the very first model?
After the model with a front jaw like yours is introduced there are some variations (some have a long rear carriage, some short; some have three holes to mount a wood insert to the front jaw others two) but I haven't been able to find any evidence that would match dates to the features.
The only aspect I am reasonably confident about is that at some point Parkinson's moved the spring from under the half nut to behind the front jaw/next to the lever.
I am not sure why having the spring near the trigger is a better solution, but it was clearly the later development and the one that caught on in all subsequent QR vices of this type. I can't find out exactly when this changed occurred, but I believe it happened after Record started manufacturing their QR vice (1917/18 earliest) because Record made both kinds early on. This is based on an assumption that if Parkinson had already discovered that changing the location of the spring was a better design then Record would have copied them immediately when they launched their version. It is also possible, of course, that Record were the originators of the change rather than Parkinson.
I did manage to find a late-ish catalogue entry with both the Parky that looks like yours (including 3 screw holes in the face) and the Record model that would eventually render it obsolete:
https://archive.org/details/illustrated ... us+grip%29
archive.org has this catalogue dated as 1910, but there is no date on the catalogue and I do not think it can really have been produced before 1927, which is when Miller Falls introduced their electric drills (see p. 80 where they are listed)
As you can see, Record undercut the price of the Parkinson vice and, since theirs' was clearly a superior design, my guess is that they would have quickly eroded Parky's sales. Indeed, by 1930 pretty much all UK QR vice production had switched to using a Record-like design (even Parkinson had a 'perfect' version) and by 1935, at least according to the Buck & Hickman's catalogue, the old Parky pattern was no longer available.
so after all that, we can conclude (what you had probably known anyway
), that your vice was most likely made in the 1920s.*available, with other catalogues, from taths.org if you sign up as a paying member.
Buck & Hickman 1930:
If I had to guess then I would say this is the final version of the 'Parky pattern' (including two screws and short rear carriage).
B&H 1935:
Great stuff Nabs.
The John Hall catalogue was more accurately dated by Bugbear to 1931-4 in this thread
old-catalogue-from-john-hall-tools-online-t101148.html
The John Hall catalogue was more accurately dated by Bugbear to 1931-4 in this thread
old-catalogue-from-john-hall-tools-online-t101148.html
I have become obsessed with finding out more about the Parky pattern vices, in particular I would like to find out about the change in spring design. Possibly I have too much time on my hands at the moment!
There is a HUGE thread on vices on the garage journal forum - https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/sho ... 782&page=1
I had glanced at this but concluded it was largely about mechanics vices, however, on closer inspection it seems there are some UK members who have acquired 'Parky pattern' woodworkers vices branded by Record and Woden. I knew the Woden model was produced from the 1918 advert below, but had never seen one. They seem a well informed bunch so have asked some questions and will report back!
There is a HUGE thread on vices on the garage journal forum - https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/sho ... 782&page=1
I had glanced at this but concluded it was largely about mechanics vices, however, on closer inspection it seems there are some UK members who have acquired 'Parky pattern' woodworkers vices branded by Record and Woden. I knew the Woden model was produced from the 1918 advert below, but had never seen one. They seem a well informed bunch so have asked some questions and will report back!
Rhyolith
Established Member
Thanks for this thread! Will be continuing to follow it.
I don't quite understand what your talking about with the springs.... I have two a parkison vices one an engineers one a carpenters (come to think might have a third in bits somewhere), if theres anything if can photograph (ect..) to help with your investigation let me know.
I don't quite understand what your talking about with the springs.... I have two a parkison vices one an engineers one a carpenters (come to think might have a third in bits somewhere), if theres anything if can photograph (ect..) to help with your investigation let me know.
I have added a couple of pics below which will hopefully make it clearer.
Here is a (relatively!) recent Parkinson vice - you can see there is flat coiled spring on the inside of the front jaw - this spring pushes on the flat bar which in turn pushes up on the half nut, pressing it to the screw:
Here is an old Record vice - there is no spring on the inside of the jaw, instead you can just see a spring under the half nut:
my theory is that the arrangement in the Record is what Parkinson implemented first, but I have never seen an example of a Parkinson with the spring in this position.
Here is a (relatively!) recent Parkinson vice - you can see there is flat coiled spring on the inside of the front jaw - this spring pushes on the flat bar which in turn pushes up on the half nut, pressing it to the screw:
Here is an old Record vice - there is no spring on the inside of the jaw, instead you can just see a spring under the half nut:
my theory is that the arrangement in the Record is what Parkinson implemented first, but I have never seen an example of a Parkinson with the spring in this position.
Rhyolith
Established Member
Yes thanks, I understand now.
My Parkinson (carpenter vice) is the sort that slides in if you push it, but has not mechanism (I am aware of) that allows it to come out (aka quick release). So probably little use in helping with your theory.
Does what you describe with the springs apply to engineers vices too? I.e. the oldest Parkinson's have the same arrangement as the records.
My Parkinson (carpenter vice) is the sort that slides in if you push it, but has not mechanism (I am aware of) that allows it to come out (aka quick release). So probably little use in helping with your theory.
Does what you describe with the springs apply to engineers vices too? I.e. the oldest Parkinson's have the same arrangement as the records.
I have not really looked at many of the engineer vices but the pics I have seen all have the spring near the trigger, as per the original patent (e.g below).
There is a listing for an early Record woodworkers' vice on ebay at the moment with some pics of the underside (reproduced below). My guess is it would be one of their earliest versions and seems to be a direct copy of the Parkinson. Confusingly it uses a flat spring near the trigger (the spring is missing in this example but you can see the castellated nut that is used to adjust the tension on the spring).
I can't think of any obvious reason why Record would adopt this design and then later move the spring in a different position, only to switch it back it again. One explanation would be that this old vice was made for them by Parkinson, but this does not seem likely I think - firstly the casting of the undercarriage is subtly different than all the other Parkinson vices I looked at (and it also is not as well finished), and secondly I can't think of any commercial reason why Record (or Parkinson) would set up an arrangement like this.
C & J Hampton registered the 'record' trademark in 1908 by which time Parkinson's patent would have expired, and Hampton's trade listings from this time have them as owning a foundry and manufacturing vices (amongst other things) so there does not seem to be anything to prevent them from simply making a copy. Also, since Record was a new brand, it is not like they could convince Parkinson they had lots of loyal customers who would rather buy from them than directly from Parkinson.
So I have concluded that C J Hampton originally copied the (then current) Parkinson's design until they switched to an improved version in 1917/1918 and, at some point during the production of this range, experimented with the spring under the nut, only to confirm the other design was better and thus switching back to it.
Well that's my theory anyway!
I have not had much luck finding information on C &J Hampton/Record before the 1930s so if anyone has better information feel free to correct me!
engineer's vice
There is a listing for an early Record woodworkers' vice on ebay at the moment with some pics of the underside (reproduced below). My guess is it would be one of their earliest versions and seems to be a direct copy of the Parkinson. Confusingly it uses a flat spring near the trigger (the spring is missing in this example but you can see the castellated nut that is used to adjust the tension on the spring).
I can't think of any obvious reason why Record would adopt this design and then later move the spring in a different position, only to switch it back it again. One explanation would be that this old vice was made for them by Parkinson, but this does not seem likely I think - firstly the casting of the undercarriage is subtly different than all the other Parkinson vices I looked at (and it also is not as well finished), and secondly I can't think of any commercial reason why Record (or Parkinson) would set up an arrangement like this.
C & J Hampton registered the 'record' trademark in 1908 by which time Parkinson's patent would have expired, and Hampton's trade listings from this time have them as owning a foundry and manufacturing vices (amongst other things) so there does not seem to be anything to prevent them from simply making a copy. Also, since Record was a new brand, it is not like they could convince Parkinson they had lots of loyal customers who would rather buy from them than directly from Parkinson.
So I have concluded that C J Hampton originally copied the (then current) Parkinson's design until they switched to an improved version in 1917/1918 and, at some point during the production of this range, experimented with the spring under the nut, only to confirm the other design was better and thus switching back to it.
Well that's my theory anyway!
I have not had much luck finding information on C &J Hampton/Record before the 1930s so if anyone has better information feel free to correct me!
engineer's vice
Here is some info on a couple of quick-release vices that predate Parkinson's design:
* Entwisle & Kenyon's (Accrington) Instantaneous Grip Vice
* Standard Instantaneous grip invented by Smiths Marks & Co, Keighley and sold by Thomas Syers and co.
Both vices are described by Francis Young in Everyman His Own Mechanic (1881):
https://archive.org/stream/everymanhiso ... 4/mode/2up
Starting with the E&K, which was invented by Wilson Riley in 1877. He filed for a US patent in 1880:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 227582.pdf
The design was also licensed to Massey in the US who marketed it as the 'Lightening grip’.
see also Charles Strelinger and Co. catalogue 1896:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bts ... e&q&f=true
You could be forgiven for thinking it was all Massey’s own work, but here is a letter from E&K clarifying matters!
This letter was printed in English Mechanic and World of Science, Volume 45 (1887) https://books.google.se/books?id=0Z5AAQ ... &q&f=false
You can see how it works in the partial cross-section below - There is a toothed rack (E) and a toothed block (L) - when the handle is turned upwards the block is disengaged from the rack, and a half-turn downwards causes the cam (H) to engage the teeth in the block with those of the rack. The cam has a spiral shape which causes it to draw the movable jaw slightly forward so the work is gripped.
I have reproduced a picture of the internals of the vice from the mig-welding forum below - in the same thread you will find a link to a dropbox area where the sections on vices from Buck & Hickman’s catalogues from 1913 to 1958 are reproduced:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/thre ... ost-813777
David Barron has one here:
http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.se ... -vice.html
and so does Wizard of this forum:
name-that-vice-t73975.html
Identification
In addition to the cam/rack arrangement and unusual bulbous handle, the casting is sometimes stamped with [STEEL RACK] as in the example above - the Massey version is clearly marked "Massey No 17 LG” (lightening grip) on the front face.
*edit*
forgot to mention that Young talks about the Melhuish quick release vice in the 1891 appendix (p783) of Everyman his own Mechanic and it seems he is describing a different vice. Certainly by 1905 the Melhuish 'Joiners' vice was by E&N:
https://archive.org/stream/MelhuishCata ... 7/mode/2up
it does seem there was a different vice offered by Melhuish at the end of the 19th century, but I do not know who made it (see pic on p784)
* Entwisle & Kenyon's (Accrington) Instantaneous Grip Vice
* Standard Instantaneous grip invented by Smiths Marks & Co, Keighley and sold by Thomas Syers and co.
Both vices are described by Francis Young in Everyman His Own Mechanic (1881):
https://archive.org/stream/everymanhiso ... 4/mode/2up
Starting with the E&K, which was invented by Wilson Riley in 1877. He filed for a US patent in 1880:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 227582.pdf
The design was also licensed to Massey in the US who marketed it as the 'Lightening grip’.
see also Charles Strelinger and Co. catalogue 1896:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bts ... e&q&f=true
You could be forgiven for thinking it was all Massey’s own work, but here is a letter from E&K clarifying matters!
This letter was printed in English Mechanic and World of Science, Volume 45 (1887) https://books.google.se/books?id=0Z5AAQ ... &q&f=false
You can see how it works in the partial cross-section below - There is a toothed rack (E) and a toothed block (L) - when the handle is turned upwards the block is disengaged from the rack, and a half-turn downwards causes the cam (H) to engage the teeth in the block with those of the rack. The cam has a spiral shape which causes it to draw the movable jaw slightly forward so the work is gripped.
I have reproduced a picture of the internals of the vice from the mig-welding forum below - in the same thread you will find a link to a dropbox area where the sections on vices from Buck & Hickman’s catalogues from 1913 to 1958 are reproduced:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/thre ... ost-813777
David Barron has one here:
http://davidbarronfurniture.blogspot.se ... -vice.html
and so does Wizard of this forum:
name-that-vice-t73975.html
Identification
In addition to the cam/rack arrangement and unusual bulbous handle, the casting is sometimes stamped with [STEEL RACK] as in the example above - the Massey version is clearly marked "Massey No 17 LG” (lightening grip) on the front face.
*edit*
forgot to mention that Young talks about the Melhuish quick release vice in the 1891 appendix (p783) of Everyman his own Mechanic and it seems he is describing a different vice. Certainly by 1905 the Melhuish 'Joiners' vice was by E&N:
https://archive.org/stream/MelhuishCata ... 7/mode/2up
it does seem there was a different vice offered by Melhuish at the end of the 19th century, but I do not know who made it (see pic on p784)
those of you with a long memory may recall from an earlier post that Francis Young - writing in the early 1880s - talked about a couple of quick-release vices being available. We covered the E&Y 'lightening' instantaneous grip above and the second was the 'Standard' instantaneous grip
The vice was made by Smith, Marks and company (Keighley) and sold by Thomas Syer, London. The earliest reference I could find was 1880 but it may have been available earlier - the casting is stamped 'patent' so presumably Smith and Co applied for a patent, which would have given another clue to production dates, but unfortunately I could not locate it.
It seems Mr Syer was a successful marketeer and he managed to get the same puff-piece included in various periodicals during the 1880s, and he also took his vice (along with his ‘registered’ workbench) around to several exhibitions about this time. Here is an example from The Builder 1883:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Wzd ... ce&f=false
There is an attempt at explanation of how it works here, but I am none the wiser for reading it:
From The cabinet and furniture maker 1881
https://books.google.com/books?id=zXIOA ... e&q&f=true
I begin to wonder about how successful this vice was - has anyone ever seen one?
And with that, back to Record vices in the next post.
The vice was made by Smith, Marks and company (Keighley) and sold by Thomas Syer, London. The earliest reference I could find was 1880 but it may have been available earlier - the casting is stamped 'patent' so presumably Smith and Co applied for a patent, which would have given another clue to production dates, but unfortunately I could not locate it.
It seems Mr Syer was a successful marketeer and he managed to get the same puff-piece included in various periodicals during the 1880s, and he also took his vice (along with his ‘registered’ workbench) around to several exhibitions about this time. Here is an example from The Builder 1883:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Wzd ... ce&f=false
There is an attempt at explanation of how it works here, but I am none the wiser for reading it:
From The cabinet and furniture maker 1881
https://books.google.com/books?id=zXIOA ... e&q&f=true
I begin to wonder about how successful this vice was - has anyone ever seen one?
And with that, back to Record vices in the next post.
Rhyolith
Established Member
I have never knowingly seen one in the flesh, but found what I think is one on Flickr:
INSTANTANEOUS GRIP VICE - 1880s by Glenn MacLeod, on Flickr
DSCF2236[1] by Glenn MacLeod, on Flickr
STANDARD INSTANTANEOUS GRIP VICE by Glenn MacLeod, on Flickr
I could message the photographer if you like?
INSTANTANEOUS GRIP VICE - 1880s by Glenn MacLeod, on Flickr
DSCF2236[1] by Glenn MacLeod, on Flickr
STANDARD INSTANTANEOUS GRIP VICE by Glenn MacLeod, on FlickrI could message the photographer if you like?
many thanks to Rhyolith for tracking down the pics of the Standard Instantaneous grip vice above - with that as a clue I was able to find out the date for the patent (6th Nov 1877).
You can just about make out the patent number (4129) on the handle in the photo above. The GB Patent office produced an abstract:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Ss9OA ... &q&f=false
I also noticed from the same publication that Riley got his instantaneous grip patent a few weeks later in November 1877 (Riley is the inventor of the Entwistle and Kenyon's 'lightening' instantaneous grip)
So it seems there were two vice makers, both living in a small northern town (Keighley) and both filing patents for 'instantaneous' grip vices inventions in the same year. Most odd - I wonder who got into production first? It would be very interesting to see the workings of the Smith version to see how similar/different they are.
PS both patents use the term 'instantaneous grip', raising the tantalizing prospect that there were others before them.
You can just about make out the patent number (4129) on the handle in the photo above. The GB Patent office produced an abstract:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Ss9OA ... &q&f=false
I also noticed from the same publication that Riley got his instantaneous grip patent a few weeks later in November 1877 (Riley is the inventor of the Entwistle and Kenyon's 'lightening' instantaneous grip)
So it seems there were two vice makers, both living in a small northern town (Keighley) and both filing patents for 'instantaneous' grip vices inventions in the same year. Most odd - I wonder who got into production first? It would be very interesting to see the workings of the Smith version to see how similar/different they are.
PS both patents use the term 'instantaneous grip', raising the tantalizing prospect that there were others before them.
Rhyolith
Established Member
I have had a reply from the photographer, he's going to post some additional photographs once he has dug up the vice from the shed. Don't know how long this will take, but will post them here soon as they appear.
Vann
Established Member
I struck something similar when looking at the patent for North Bros "Yankee" drills. Taking my drill apart, and working through the gobbledegook, I managed to work out almost all of what they meant. I've been meaning to do a thread on that for several years (where's that damned round tuit?).nabs":1tm23vhh said:
I'm enjoying your research - but waiting for you to get around to the versions of the Record itself (impatient so-and-so that I am :roll: ) - and while your title says "52 1/2" I'm assuming the No.52 and No.53 vises share the same evolution?
Cheers, Vann.
I can only guess, I'm afraid - the earliest catalogue I can find with Record vices (Melhuish 1925) has all three models. Despite the fact that the "1/2" designation used for the 9'' model might seem like it was an afterthought squeezed in between the bigger and smaller one, I am pretty sure Record would have made it available from the start just because the two incumbent QR vice makers already had all their's available in 7'', 9'' and 10'', e.g Melhuish 1905
https://archive.org/stream/MelhuishCata ... 7/mode/2up
Happy to be proved wrong!
https://archive.org/stream/MelhuishCata ... 7/mode/2up
Happy to be proved wrong!
Vann
Established Member
Having a glance through "Record Tools", the reprint of Record's Catalogue No.15 of 1938, I see there were then three versions of the No.52, 52½ and 53 woodworkers' vices. These were:
- the No. 52, No. 52½ and No.53 which are described as "With Quick-grip and Continuous Screw Action" (i.e. quick release);
- the No. 52A, No. 52½A and No.53A which are described as "With Quick-grip and Continuous Screw Action and fitted with Patent Screw and Nut Cover" (with the addition of a cover over the thread);
- the No. 52P, No. 52½P and No.53P which are described as "With Plain Screw Action only" (no frills).
These vices have five ribs on the front jaw (one vertical; two at 45deg; & two almost horizontal); "RD 664 709" toward the top; and an elliptical boss on the screw where the handle passes through. They are described as having "Unbreakable Steel Slides", suggesting the jaws might not be steel. That year these vices are also described as having "...the following NEW FEATURES:-
1. A metal plate is fitted into the Body covering the Nut mechanism to prevent sawdust or shavings falling on to the working parts.
2. Improved method of anchoring the Half-Nut which enables it to be quickly taken out for cleaning."
There are later versions and later front jaw designs, but I'll have to research those a bit more. However I know there is a "D" version of these vices, which have a dog on the front jaw, and an "E" version which, IIRC, has an additional plate over the mechanism (how many plates can you have over the mechanism? (hammer) ).
Cheers, Vann.
- the No. 52, No. 52½ and No.53 which are described as "With Quick-grip and Continuous Screw Action" (i.e. quick release);
- the No. 52A, No. 52½A and No.53A which are described as "With Quick-grip and Continuous Screw Action and fitted with Patent Screw and Nut Cover" (with the addition of a cover over the thread);
- the No. 52P, No. 52½P and No.53P which are described as "With Plain Screw Action only" (no frills).
These vices have five ribs on the front jaw (one vertical; two at 45deg; & two almost horizontal); "RD 664 709" toward the top; and an elliptical boss on the screw where the handle passes through. They are described as having "Unbreakable Steel Slides", suggesting the jaws might not be steel. That year these vices are also described as having "...the following NEW FEATURES:-
1. A metal plate is fitted into the Body covering the Nut mechanism to prevent sawdust or shavings falling on to the working parts.
2. Improved method of anchoring the Half-Nut which enables it to be quickly taken out for cleaning."
There are later versions and later front jaw designs, but I'll have to research those a bit more. However I know there is a "D" version of these vices, which have a dog on the front jaw, and an "E" version which, IIRC, has an additional plate over the mechanism (how many plates can you have over the mechanism? (hammer) ).
Cheers, Vann.
memzey
Established Member
I thought that the "E" version was for schools (Education)?
