How to build a builtin wardrobe in an alcove - the technique

[CYC]

Hi all,

I need to build 2 builtin wardrobes in alcoves. Needless to say the alcoves don't have perfectly straight walls. So I am starting this thread to capture the right techniques you Pros use to create this builtin furniture?

Here are the usual items to work around:
- Walls not straight
- pipes inside the alcove
- plaster moulding at top of walls
- Skirting

The more pictures and sketches you can provide for clear explanation the better. I think this would benefit a lot of readers in the long run as well as me.

Thanks in advance

 

[Sgian Dubh]

If you can find these two articles of mine they should help. Slainte.

Every rod tells a story, 1 Furniture & Cabinetmaking Issue 85, Feb. 2004

Every rod tells a story, 2 Furniture & Cabinetmaking Issue 86, March 2004

 

[Anonymous]

CYC

I think you need to scribe the wall using a pecil and block. Hold a sheet of wood perpendicular to the wall, (may be the cabinet side itself) and run a thin block with a pencil on the opposite end along the wall. The pencil should be held against the perpendicualr sheet. The profile of the wall will be followed by the block and the pencil will draw the profile onto the perpendicualr sheet. Cut to line for perfect fit.

You could use a pair of (lockable) dividers for this instead of block and pencil and scribe a line on the board

 

[Aragorn]

Hi

For wonky walls I always scribe a piece.

This is the technique I use:

Take the piece of wood you want to use as your wall stile.
Make sure the inside edge of this wood is nice and straight - this will become the edge that you hang your doors from.
Hold the wood against the wall with a spirit level against the good edge.
Have a look how far out it is at the top or bottom (just roughly) Let's call this 15mm.
Drive a screw into the top or bottom of the stile (depending which end is away from the wall) leaving roughly 15mm of the screw sticking out.
Now offer it up again with the spirit level resting the screw against the wall. This means the wood is now securely stable against the wall, and you can accurately check the spirit level.
Drive the screw in or out as need be until the spirit level reads plumb.
Now scribe the wall profile onto the stile - I use a compass for this. Just hold the wood against the wall: the wood touching at one end, the screw touching the other, and run the compass down.
Cut with a jigsaw or bandsaw.
When offered up to the wall, it should now be lovely and plumb on the inside edge.

Works for me everytime!

 

[CYC]

Thanks Tony & Aragorn, so what do the pros usually build with?

- A face frame and hang the doors to it. Fix batons on either side of the inside of the alcove to lay shelves.

-Build a carcasse that fits loose in the alcove and then scrib a face frame around it.

Aragorn, in your example, I guess you are using the first option? How do you fix the frame securely in the alcove?

 

[Aragorn]

I have built both types: carcass with a scribed face-frame, and cupboards that go straight onto the walls.

Depends on what you want really: the "straight-in" type is definitely quicker, easier and cheaper IMO.

The carcass type is more attractive, convenient (if you do most of the work in the workshop) and versatile (e.g. it's easier and neater to have adjustable shelving etc).

To fix the frame in the alcove I use two methods depending on how smart it needs to be.
Method one is to screw some baton (32 x32mm) onto the wall the length of the stile. The face frame gets glued and pinned/biscuited to this.

Method two is to screw the stile directly to the wall by boring an 8mm hole partway through the good edge and then plugging it. (The head of an 8g screw fits through an 8mm hole).

In either case, I would use No nails/Gripfill as well.

 

[CYC]

Thanks aragorn, this is really helpful.

 

[johnelliott]

The way I do this is to design and make the largest rectilinear cabinet that will fit into the space, usually from 18mm birch ply with 6mm for the back.
Then I fit strips, usually of 18mm material to the outside of the box, set back by 6mm.
Then, place the box in the alcove and fix it into position by whatever means are appropriate. Then get some 6mm material and scribe it to fit into the gaps between the cabinet and the walls. When it fits, nail or glue it to the strips mentioned above.
We usually use some decorators caulk to fill the slight gaps between strip and wall that will usually be present.
This way there are no worries about the rigidity of the face frame, because there isn't one. Doors are standard overlaid type

John

 

[CYC]

Aragorn, another question:
In the case of using the frame option ("straight in"), given that I use some ready made door (the usual built-in doors), how do you hinge them to the frame, I guess you can't use the usual european hinges?

 

[Aragorn]

When the doors are a fixed size, because they are ready-bought, it is essential to be accurate with the width of the stiles after they are scribed in.

One option is to start with timber that is way to wide, scribe it is as described above, then plane down the good side so that the opening is just right to suit the doors.
TBH I usually just do it by scribing off the right amount on the waste side, but if you want to allow yourself some margin for error on the scribed side, better to cut them down to width afterwards.

I usually hang the doors to the face-frame with normal butt hinges, so that the front of the cabinet is flush.

If you want the door mounted in front of the face frame, it's better to go with John's suggestion and use a carcass, else you have to pack out the inside of the stiles to accomodate the size of the european hinges.

 

[tim]

I tend to make a carcase as John described above and then plant on a face frame using biscuits and plugged screws. I can't remember where I got this trick I use for scribing but it stops any faffing about. Its dead easy to do and damned difficult to describe (so bear with me):

Cut a row of biscuit slots in the edge of the cabinet side panel. Cut corresponding slots in the back of the face frame stile to give you whatever lip you want to have inside the cabinet. Then run a further row of slots parallel to the first row on the face frame stile at an arbitrary distance that is greater than the width of the outer edge of the stile to the wall edge.

Set a pair of compasses to the distance from the edge of one biscuit slot to the corresponding edge of the parallel one ie the offset.

Place the stile on to the cabinet edge using the paralled set of slots and scribe using the compasses. Cut the waste away, refit the stile using the original slots and its a perfect fit.

If its not clear, I'll see if I can draw it up. It does work a treat and means that you aren't having to balance many things at the same time - if you are good at cutting with a jigsaw you can normally get away with no filler or caulk first time.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Aragorn]

Tim - that is an excellent method! Love it.
Neat, simple, foolproof.

 

[tim]

Tim - that is an excellent method! Love it.
Neat, simple, foolproof.

Its a proper 'eureka' moment isn't it! I couldn't believe how simple it was when I first heard it!

Cheers

Tim

 

[CYC]

I am so sorry Tim but I am not sure I fully get it

It would be so good of you to draw some sketches. It sounds too good not to have everyone not understand it :wink: :wink:
Are you using pre-made doors which you hang with european hinges in this scenario, if so, doesn't the hinge land partly on the face frame's edge, is that acceptable for solidity?

I have to do two builtin wardrobes for a family member very soon so I would really appreciate to know the right technique before I mess it up :lol:

Thanks Tim, and thanks aragorn also for sharing your professional expertise.

 

[Neil]

That is REALLY clever, Tim - thanks so much for posting it

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Adam]

I don't get it either

Adam

 

[Scrit]

Hope this makes the technique a little clearer:

The left hand item is the edge of the wardrobe side, the right hand piece is the BACK of the face frame shown with the two parallel rows of biscuit slots, 18mm apart, with a mudguard washer with an 18mm offset used to mark the scribe. In this case there would be no overlap of the face frame over the carcass side. I'd use a washer and pencil to transfer the scribe marking onto the face frame upright.

Scrit

 

[j]

Wow,
NOW I get it (i think)
I'll have to try it to really understand it, but i'm sure it works great.

Thanks

 

[CYC]

Scrit, I am afraid I am more confused now. I think I understood it more before

In this case there would be no overlap of the face frame over the carcass side. I'd use a washer and pencil to transfer the scribe marking onto the face frame upright.

Does it mean you are leaving apparent slots in the edge of carcass? I didn't think Tim said that.
Sorry if I am missing a really obvious point :roll:

I hope i don't irritate you all

 

[tim]

Thanks Scrit - I gave up trying to draw it - if I get chance over the next few days I'll cobble one up and photograph it.

Are you using pre-made doors which you hang with european hinges in this scenario, if so, doesn't the hinge land partly on the face frame's edge, is that acceptable for solidity?

It depends on whether there is a lip or not - if you use a frame thats flush with the cabinet edge then its no different except that you need to set the hinge plate back from the front face of the frame and not the cabinet. Where there is a lip, I use face frame hinge plates, which screw to the face frame and I put a small packing fillet under the back part (although I've done it without and encountered no probs). I would post a link but every time I post a Hafele link it only ever shows the front page so I'll just copy the pic:

Hope that helps

Cheers

Tim