Help! My saw's a eunuch! (it's lost it's nuts)

[Carl P]

I picked this saw up as part of a job lot, as you can see, it looks good from the front...

Not so good from the rear, almost emasculated you might say. Anyway, just wondered if there is any way of restoring it to its former glory while still using the remains of its tackle, as it were.

Thanks for any help,

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[RogerP]

You need old style split saw nuts but they're not easy to find.
However, you can make them .... http://www.wkfinetools.com/tMaking/sawNuts/sawNuts-1.asp ... will give you a start.

 

[marcros]

I think workshop heaven may sell them.

 

[RogerP]

They sell saw nuts/bolts but I very much doubt the nuts are the correct size or thread for the bolts in this saw.
It would be a shame to have replace them completely (and possibly have to modify the holes in the saw handle and blade.)

 

[bugbear]

The handle is the nicest part of that saw; the teeth are a lovely counter example to the notion that sharpening a saw is an easy process, and both the spine and plate are rusted badly enough that they'll never be smooth again.

There are enough good old saws around that I would walk away.

I routinely walk away from REALLY good saws at car boots, often for sale at a pound, where the vendor says that they'll go in the skip if they don't sell on the day.

But I haven't the space to run a saw orphanage.

BugBear

 

[Carl P]

Thanks for the replies,

Roger - thanks for the link, I will try something long those lines, although it may take some time!

Marcros - thanks for the Axi source - if I were making a new handle I'd definitely do that

Bugbear - if I'd seen it at a carboot I'd have walked away, however now that I have it I feel compelled to try and sort it out, especially as it is so nearly ok - oddly enough I didn't feel the same compulsion when a couple of unsellable, but still (more or less) useable wooden planes in my possession transformed themselves into cutting gauges!

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[AndyT]

I found myself in a similar position a year or two ago. A neighbour gave me an old saw, which I thought I could put back into usable condition. It was rusty and a previous owner had got as far as removing the split nuts, which of course were not with the saw when I got it. Fortunately in this case the screws were not about to shift from their long-held positions.

In what looks now like an embarrassingly crude job, I found some suitable bits of non-ferrous metal (obsolete foreign coins from holiday change!) which I drilled, tapped and filed down. I think the tap was probably 1/8" Whitworth (as that's what I had) and it was close enough to fit, in a strictly utilitarian, not-proper-engineering sort of way.

I also filed the teeth so it cuts again.

I did it at the time, not to get a pretty saw, but to practice on and learn what I could do. However, the nuts do work - which is the main point really - so the handle is comfortable and stable and the saw is usable.

The maker's name is just about visible in this blurry photo as "Russell and Horsfield" of Sheffield.

I've since learned (from Simon Barley's book) that their partnership was shortlived, from 1854 to 1856, so (assuming that they did not carry on using the old name) this saw is probably about 160 years old. That makes me feel pleased to have saved it from the bin.

Carl, I think you could do a similar, or better job on your saw!

 

[Carl P]

Andy, thanks for posting that, it's quite inspiring in its own eccentric way! I'm planning on getting some brass rod as in the link Roger gave, but it's quite reassuring to know that the Whitworth worked. I'm not too worried about a flawless reconstruction, more that I want to know if I can do it - also, as I think you may have said at some point, they don't make them anymore - so if it's working, it's got to be better than going to landfill or making scrapers. I'll put some photo's up when I'm done.

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[AndyT]

Carl, in answering Roger P's question, I looked again at my taps. Down at the 1/8" size a Whitworth tap is too fine a thread (40 tpi) so I think the one I used must have been an odd one marked 6 UNC 32. I think they only fitted because of my generous manufacturing tolerances and the soft metal!

 

[Carl P]

Thanks for that Andy, I'll bear that in mind. I've just got the brass rod this morning, I don't yet have anything small enough to make the threads (3/16 is my smallest), but theres a car boot on Sunday, and of course, the all-pervading magic of evilbay. One of the screws comes out, so I might take it with me, depending on how confident I am that it won't end up lying in a muddy field!

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[bugbear]

"proper" old split-nut bolts have very coarse, very shallow, and very rounded threads.

They're very prone to stripping out when you tighten them.

I've been told.

So it's best (IMHO) to tighten the handle onto the saw using a clamp
(Jorgensen style wooden clamps work very well for this) and then just "take up the slack"
on the nuts.

BugBear

 

[Carl P]

Thanks for that Bugbear - oddly enough after I'd cleaned the saw up today I was examining the screw threads and thinking exactly the same thing, wondering in fact whether the threads had already been partly stripped, leading to its current predicament. I may have to try and recut them in some way, when I've got something more suitable for the nuts I'll weigh up the options - it'll definetely include clamping though!

Cheerio,

Carl

 

[rxh]

You are welcome to have these nuts if you think they might fit. The thread seems to be about 1/8" x 20 TPI. One nut has a bit of bolt snapped off in it but I think I can free it. The slots can be cleaned up with a small file.

 

[Carl P]

rxh,

That's a very generous offer which is much appreciated, at the moment though I'm fairly determined to make my own - I've got some brass rod of the right diameter, I just need the right size tap - I thought I'd found one, but it was too wide, still some more avenues to try, but if I have to admit defeat, I'll let you know,

Thanks,

Carl

 

[spanner48]

I've taken a number of these split-nut screws out of old backsaws. The English ones mostly seem to be similar to 5/32" Whitworth, but with 24 tpi, instead of Whitworth's 32. US ones seem mostly to be UNC.

I wonder if anyone in Sheffield - such as the Hawley Collection - has taps and dies for that thread?

 

[clauskeller]

Carl,

here you will get the requiered brass split screws and nuts:

https://www.fine-tools.com/make-your-own-saw.html
Regards from Germany

Claus

 

[Adam W.]

Garlick saws sells screws and caps.

https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/acatalog/Saw_Screws_.html#SID=432

 

[Phill05]

No one notice this thread is 7 Year old