dining table in oak

[stef]

yes, another one.
Been gathering info on this project for a while now, and yesterday, i started playing around with the oak i was going to use for the project.
time to finalise the plan.

so it's got to be fairly big. is there any standard traditional dimensions for dining table ?
I was going to go for 2100mmx900mm. and here is a quick sketch of how i plan to assemble the top.
Am i way off the mark ?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Wood expands and contracts across its width, so the two end pieces and the centre piece will expand and contract one way and the remaining pieces will expand and contract the other way. This will cause you problems.........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Can't see the pic at the moment, but it sounds like 'breadboard ends'... - Rob

 

[Russ]

It may look good when finished but after a couple of seasons the joints will crack open. Have you thought of a simple plank-top?

 

[stef]

all farmhouse tables i have seen have those two end pieces, so i would think that this is the way to do this.
why do you think the contration/expension will give me problems ?
I am not sure about the middle section (parallel to the end pieces), but this being a large table it sorts of make sense to me.
it's got to have a rustic/ farmhouse feel to it, so i dont mind the open joints.

 

[stef]

http://www.french-oak-furniture.com/new%20tables.htm
Ah !
found a good example, with dimensions !
it's 2100mm x 900m..
Is there any rules to stop me making mine 2100x100 ?

 

[motownmartin]

What people are trying to tell you is to watch out for movement when you have grain going in opposite directions, I think you will have to make sure the moisture content is correct, don't ask me what it should be but I have 2 pieces of furniture in the same room, both with breadboard ends, one an expensive Oak table and the other a cheapdisplay cabinet from ebay, the table has not moved in 5 years the display cabinet has moved a great deal in just 2 years.


Here are some pics to show you

Just imagine what your table could end up like with the centre rail after a couple of years.

I hope it works out for you

 

[jlawrence]

Being a beginner correct me if I'm miles off the mark here:
Surely the amount of movement you'll get will depend on how well the wood was adjusted to the temperatures before working it and on how well the surface has been sealed ?

 

[newt]

Its moisture not temperature that causes wood movement. It can be minimised by making sure the wood has acclimatized to the environment it is going to remain in before machining (this time depends on several factors mainley the starting moisture content and the thinkness of wood ). You cannot seal wood completely from the effects of moisture with normal finishes.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Stef,

Wood never stops moving, so the centre rail will give you problems eventually. If you want to go with the breadboard ends, however, they would be OK provided the construction method you use to attach them will allow for movement (ie don't glue it).

Just because the picture in that link you posted shows a centre piece, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[stef]

Stef,

Wood never stops moving, so the centre rail will give you problems eventually. If you want to go with the breadboard ends, however, they would be OK provided the construction method you use to attach them will allow for movement (ie don't glue it).

Just because the picture in that link you posted shows a centre piece, doesn't mean it's the right way to do it :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

so, basically, the table will shrink length wise, apart from the center piece, which would force the middle to be in line with teh end boards.
this means gaps will eventually appear between the inner boards.

You say breadboards are ok at the end, provided movement is allowed. This mean the breadboards will eventually be (relatively) shorter (or longer) than the combined width of the "filler" boards. some gaps will, of course appear here too. either between the "filler" boards, or an obvious step, as in one of the picture above.


so how is this different with a center piece ?
can i just see the center piece as the end breadboard of another table attached to the first one ? (this would mean the sketch i initially drew is not correct. the middle piece should go all the way accross.)

 

[Dave S]

it's got to have a rustic/ farmhouse feel to it, so i dont mind the open joints.

In that case, could you not build it as a frame and panel? Instead of making the frame to accommodate expansion of the panel as others are suggesting, you would fix the frame and make the panel so that expansion/contraction does not break the frame.

In effect it becomes like a horizontal door. You then need an expansion gap around the panel or between the components but you could make a feature of this, and it could have that rustic look that you are aiming for.

cheers
Dave

 

[Paul Chapman]

so how is this different with a center piece ?

As it's drawn, the centre piece is not the same as the breadboard ends. The centre piece is trapped by the two, long outer pieces. As the lenthways pieces either side of the centre piece try to expand and contract across their width, something has to give.

If it were me, I'd forget about the centre piece as I think it makes the whole thing too complicated from a sound construction point of view.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[stef]

http://www.alexanderpaulantiques.com/st ... 245-09.htm
http://www.alexanderpaulantiques.com/st ... 095-07.htm
http://www.alexanderpaulantiques.com/st ... 205-09.htm
From these, it looks like i am going to drop the middle section !
i might struggle with the stock i've got though.. a trip to the workshop is in order !

 

[Richard Findley]

In effect it becomes like a horizontal door.

Hi Stef,

Dave has the key here. There's not much up with your plan except that when it's all glued up with tongues/biscuits etc, it has nowhere to go so is likely to bend/twist/warp/split (in no particular order).

Stick with the plan but use a tongue and groove for the panel (like a door) this allows for movement (no glue between the T&G) and everyone is happy!!!

HTH

Richard

 

[BradNaylor]

In effect it becomes like a horizontal door.

Dave has the key here

Indeed he does.

This is exactly how I would think of this table top - as a horizontal door with frame and panel constuction.

The individual planks making up each panel can be glued together so long as the panel as a whole is floating in a snug but over-depth groove in the frame without glue.

The only way in which the table top would differ from a 'horizontal door' is that the end rails would extend to the full width of the table, giving the breadboard effect.

You should be able to use all the componant parts you have already prepared. The only difference is the way they are put together.

Cheers
Brad

 

[Karl]

Isn't there a problem with having the two central floating panels - what happens to crumbs/spillages etc. Surely they will just work their way into the rebates in which the panels sit :?

Cheers

Karl

 

[stef]

Isn't there a problem with having the two central floating panels - what happens to crumbs/spillages etc. Surely they will just work their way into the rebates in which the panels sit :?

Cheers

Karl

yes, this is what bothers me a bit too.
I dont mind a little gap showing, but there is a risk of a larger gap apearing, if i make it frame and panel.
I think i am going to go the simpler root of longer planks and 2 breadboards.
I still havent been able to check the stock i have left, especially the longer boards. but if i have enough, i'll go the traditional root of 2 breadboards only at each end.
if not, it will be panel and frame.
I'll keep you posted on the progress.
today, i managed to get one of the long side more or less trued and cut to size.

 

[Richard Findley]

To minimise gaps you could glue up the insert panel and leave it floating, more like a door with a raised and fielded panel than T&G.

Richard

 

[MikeG.]

You can of course glue the "floating" panels in place.

That may sound silly, but..........

........if you glue only the middle of them into the rebates, say 3 or 4 inches of glue-length in the middle at either end, then you will have retained the panels in place, yet still enabled the wood to expand and contract.

All of this is a question of how stable the internal environment in your house is. If you have a house that doesn't change temperature or humidity very much, then make it all fit tight and glue it all up.........so long as you have stabilised the wood by a period of acclimatisation in the house.

If your house varies in temeperature and humidity, particularly if this is seasonal, then follow all the advice you have been given.

Mike