Dado blades (can any saw use them?)

[onlinename]

Hey guys, Im about to buy a DeWalt DW 745 compact table saw.

I was wondering if it could use dado blades and if so which ones would you recommend that are not too pricey?

 

[MickCheese]

Don't know much about dado blades but I do know not all saws accept them. Often the shaft is too short.

The saw you point to looks to me to be a bit too 'site sawish' to take one but I am only guessing. Telephone Dewalt and ask.

Mick

 

[MickCheese]

This is from the Dewalt site.


********************************************************************************
Can a dado blade be used on the DW745 10" Compact Table Saw?


No, we do not recommend using a dado blade on the DW745 Table Saw.

There is a misprint in the DW745 type 2 manual that says you can use a dado blade, this information is incorrect and is being revised.

See the attached Powerpoint presentation regarding the error in the DW745 ty 2 manual.
********************************************************************************

So it seems not.

Mick

 

[Dangermouse]

Most if not all site saws cant take a dado blade. the only safe saws that take such are the big semi-prof and professional types made to take the extra load and have a long arbor.

 

[onlinename]

hm, so then if I want to create dados my other option would be a router right?

 

[RogerBoyle]

hm, so then if I want to create dados my other option would be a router right?

Correct and with the help of jigs it is usually faster for one off's or a small run

But for a large number of cuts then it really is the best tool for the job although there are plenty of forum members that think otherwise LOL

Roger

 

[Dan.patten]

I read somewhere that in order for a tablesaw to get a CE/kitemark for UK sale the arbour had to be too short to accept a dado stack, hence the lack of them in this country.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I read somewhere that in order for a tablesaw to get a CE/kitemark for UK sale the arbour had to be too short to accept a dado stack, hence the lack of them in this country.

Apparently that's a myth.

The official view of the HSE is that dado sets are OK, provided the saw was designed to take them, and the correct safety precautions are taken. Steve Maskery covers the subject in his DVD on tablesaws, and I know he took advice from the HSE about exactly this subject. If he picks up this thread, I'm sure he'll comment more precisely.

Personally, I'd use a router! It's not that dado sets don't work, nor leave a bad finish (it's really good, by all accounts), but that they're completely unforgiving of operator error. So are routers, but they're better understood, and dado cutting is a very simple operation.

The example that gives me the creeps just thinking about on YouTube is Tommy Mac making the sides for his bow-fronted secretaire. He's really skilled and the finished piece is truly extraordinary, but that one task has me screaming "Noooooo!" at the screen. Dangerous in so many different ways!

E.

 

[JakeS]

The official view of the HSE is that dado sets are OK, provided the saw was designed to take them, and the correct safety precautions are taken.

Specifically, I'm pretty sure I recall reading that it's OK so long as the saw's brake can stop the blade within ten seconds, and the reason most saws are fitted with short non-dado-accepting arbours is that their brakes aren't rated for the significant extra weight of dado blades.


That said, changing blades in my saw at least is a massive hassle, so even leaving aside any other concerns I'd far rather use a router for that reason alone. ;-)

 

[János]

Hello,

The use of universal moulder heads, wobble saws and dado heads is forbidden on all woodworking machinery (table saw, router, shaper) used with hand feed. This is mandatory EU occupational safety regulation. So the newer table saws are manufactured with purposely short arbors.

Have a nice day,

János

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi János
That's not what I understood from the HSE when I discussed this with them a couple of years ago. Have the regulations changed recently? Do you have a reference for that stipulation please? I would be very interested in the specific clause.

My understanding from the HSE, and the view I present on my DVDs, is that the issue is two-fold - the issue of braking time and the difficulty of effective guarding.

On a small saw with a small motor, the increased mass of the stack increases the inertia and therefore the stopping time. On a bigger saw, with a lot more rotating mass, the extra weight of the blade is less significant and therefore the stopping time is not so much greater. My saw stops in just over 6 seconds even when fully stacked. The limit is 10 seconds, so I am well within. But there is no mechanical brake on my saw either. Some braking systems can be damaged by using a dado blade (I've never figured out how, but that's what manufacturers claim).
As for guarding, I offer a couple of solutions for guarding under different conditions. With a table saw it is not a case of one size fits all. Most modern saws have the guard mounted on the riving knife. This is very convenient, but makes any kind of blind cut impossible. The challenge is to use the functionality of the saw without compromising safety and this means having a range of guards. I do not use a RK-mounted guard at all. I have a SUVA-style one for most work, and a magnetic stand-alone guard for a number of blind operations. Also some of my jigs. like the Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig, and my grooving fence, have guarding built in to the jig itself.

The upshot of all this is that you need a saw designed to use a stack, and the only one I am aware of in the UK is the Excalibur from Woodford (which is an excellent quality saw in many other respects, too) and even then you have to build your own guarding.

My advice - use a router jig.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Dicky]

I am amazed at the 'Dado' issue. It has been going on for years on this forum and it has been fun reading the 'informed opinions' of some of the members. Steve is quite right with what he says. Here is an extract from the HSE's information sheet No. 16 Rev 2 - circular saw benches - Safe working practices: 'A circular saw should not be used for cutting a rebate or groove unless the blade is effectively guarded. This is because the normal saw guard cannot be used. Suitable alternative guards and fixtures are necessary. Figure 8 shows an example of one method for rebating or grooving using Shaw guards. Where practicable, the tunnel formed by the pressure pads should be designed to meet the requirements of BS EN ISO 13857:2008.7'.
I have been a City and Guilds qualified Carpenter and Joiner since 1985 and I remember being taught and examined on some things that would now be frowned upon by the liberal Health and Safety Brigade. I have also been a practicing H & S manager for the past 7 years and prior to that, a qualified Woodworking Machinery instructor. My 'informed' knowledge is that ALL woodworking tools are potentialy dangerous if not used in a safe manner, regardless of whether it is powered or hand held. Dado blades are as safe as routers, if, and only if, they are used by competent individuals. All the regulations in the UK are designed and aimed at the employed person, either by a company or self, so if you aren't doing woodwork for a living, ie a hobbyist, you can do what you like with what you like. Granted, a lot of the members on this site are hobbyists and from what I read, are a lot safer than some of the so called profesionals I have come into contact with over the years. There nothing specific within the Woodworking Machinery regulations, Work Equipment Regulations (PUWER '98) or Guidance that specifically mentions Dado blades. Suffice it to say, if you want to use one (even at work), ensure it meets the machines specifications and it is guarded correctly!
There, rant over with.

Dicky

 

[John51]

My Shopsmith came with dado blades and a molder heads. Both need parts to function so no use as yet. I'll be building a router table this year so will there be any reason to ever use the dado and molder on the Shopsmith?

Only advantage I can see is that it is real quick to change from saw blade/dado/molder on the SS.

 

[pswallace]

I think it's pretty ironic that a woodworker is advised against using a dado blade when anybody can go into the likes of B&Q and buy a 45 cc chain saw ! (I've seen the aftermath of a chain saw accident and I can tell you it wasn't nice)

I guess the point I'm making is that a lot of machinery can be dangerous if operated by an incompetent person but some health and safety reg's just don't make sense to me as in the one above.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I blame Norm!

 

[Guyforks]

Wow.

This is like being in a time warp.
A long time ago on this forum I got hammered over this subject.

I have a SIP 12” TS that the arbor has been adjusted on. Only because back in the day I picked up a dado set not knowing it wouldn’t fit. It does now!
Anyway I’m not getting into the same conversation as before (a moderator didn’t like it when I said people are dangerous).

All I’ll say is; I still have all my fingers and toes and some nice large box joints to boot.

G.

 

[sprayways]

hey Guyforks, I know its an old post but is that an SIP 01446?? I would love to know how you adjusted the arbor

 

[Graham Orm]

Go to the 20 minute mark here http://video.unctv.org/video/2365021526/

 

[acewoodturner]

Just come across this thread. The best machine for using a dado head on is an old green Dewalt radial arm saw.