Accentuating quilted maple without darkening appearance

[Gerard Scanlan]

Does anyone care to share their thoughts or experience on accentuating quilted and flamed maple without darkening the overall appearance? When I plane the maple prior to sanding for French polishing the 3D effect is startling. However when I then sand the surface and start to polish it the effect recedes more than I would like and is far less visible. I want to retain the light overall colour of the maple. Is it possible to enhance the quilting without going to the extreme as do many guitar builders? I have tried using a few coats of very dark shellac and then sanding them back before applying bleached shellac but this does not do anything much apart from muddy the surface. I am being picky but I want the surface to look as good as when it is freshly planed and dry. Any ideas?

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I'm wondering if the fine dust from the sanding has a dulling effect? Have you tried plane then pale shellac without sanding? Cheers, W2S

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Thanks woody2shoes I have been thinking that might be a problem but the guitar guys do not seem to have any trouble with this. Shellac straight onto a planed surface goes against all the laws of French polishing but I will try it and see if it works. I had considered it might work if I applied darker shellac straight after planing and then sanded it when dry. Of course it is also a posibility that the darker shellac is just dissolved too quickly and mixes in with the next layer of light shellac to readily. I am starting to think the answer is probably to try a medium tone wood dye and then sand that back. I want the quilting to be visible but not as 'in-your-face' as on a fancy guitar.

 

[BillK]

I haven't done a lot of flame maple but a lighter dye or candy concentrate, then sand back, accentuates the flame without taking over. I'd start yellow, orange can get dark very quickly.
Guitar guys use dyes but I like candy concentrates, partly because I have them anyway for paint but also they thin and dry very fast.
This is a factory light tint clearcoats on flame sycamore but maybe shows what a yellow can do to the actual flame without even being wiped into the grain. It's less obvious at different angles but-

And the other end of the scale, this is mine, only two wipes of red candy sanded back, red candy clearcoat and it's very dark, though still shimmers somewhat with angles etc

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Thanks for posting those pictures.

The top of this piece is French polished quilted maple and although it looks nice the quilted effect is very subtle. Another piece from the same board planed and cut to fit but not get finished looks a lot more exciting.

 

[marcros]

what are the candy concentrates? I have used dyes, but not heard of these.

 

[BillK]

Both of those look lovely to me, in their different ways. Would Tru-oil do? It's too delicate for me for guitars but it does seem to pop a figure nicely. Pretty popular with home guitar builders.

Marcros, candy is a concentrated dye which you add to clearcoat to tint it. It came from custom car painting in the US in the 50s. You spray the tinted clear over a base colour or flake, lets you get all sorts of effects & colours but is difficult to spray. The red on the neck above is a candy finish over bare whiteish maple.

 

[marcros]

ah, probably not ideal for the small home workshop, and somebody with no experience of spraying. The neck looks good though.

 

[heatherw]

I've never tried to finish a musical instrument, but if the sanding dust is obscuring the grain perhaps using a cabinet scraper would work?

 

[BillK]

Cheers marcros. It works as a wipe-on stain but I seem to be the only one using it for that... although that's just convenience. I do think it's a bit more UV-resistant than some stains, being meant for cars etc.

 

[Austinisgreat]

Gerard,

For what its worth, my very limited experience. Guitar neck sanded to 400 and finished with around 15 coats of tru-oil. Box lid (which is sycamore not maple), around 5 coats of blonde dewaxed shellac followed by a few coats of clear gloss nitrocellulose lacquer from a rattlecan.

Whether either of these finishes would suit your lovely furniture, others may well be able to chip in.

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for your suggestions, explanation of your method and photographs. Flaming looks great but is not over the top. Exactly what I would like. It is still a mystery to me why some figuring looks better after finishing and other figuring almost vanishes. I have noticed that flamed wood seems to remain more visible than quilted stuff in the past. I am going to experiment on some scraps and see if I can get better results. I think that with quilted surfaces which show extreme cross grain (I believe the quilting is caused by patches of end grain poking through the running grain of the surface) dissappear as I sand because the light no longer catches the swirl of grain. I think I need to stain this cross grain while it is still open and absorbant (before sanding) and then continue with the finishing as I usually do.

 

[Austinisgreat]

Hi Gerard,

Thanks for the reply to my post. Hope to be of some help. I found another similar thread on here which you may be able to find. I think the concensus was that an oil finish (whether tru-oil, tung oil, or whatever), tends to "pop the grain" better than other finishes. I can only think that applying dark shellac or a wood dye will spoil your attempt to keep the wood as light as possible, although it might accentuate the grain to an extent.

BTW what grit are you sanding to? This might be one example of where sanding to a "ridiculous extent" ie 1000 or even 1200 grit MIGHT actually be advatageous prior to applying any finish? Just a thought.

Look forward to hearing results of your trials. Of interest I have not finished any quilted maple, just tiger stripe and a bit of birds-eye, and the rippled sycamore you saw the picture of.

Cheers

Andrew

 

[custard]

This might be one example of where sanding to a "ridiculous extent" ie 1000 or even 1200 grit MIGHT actually be advatageous prior to applying any finish? Just a thought.

And it's a good thought, because if you sand end grain through to very high grits you find it doesn't darken nearly so much during staining and finishing.

The traditional view is that finish is absorbed into the wood's fibres in end grain, hence the darkening. The latest thinking is suggesting something a bit more complicated, yes there's some absorption into the fibres, but most of the darkening is because the end grain is inherently rougher. There's effectively tear out on a micro level with end grain into which the finish lodges. Looked at under high magnification I can see this even on planed end grain that I'd have previously judged to have a polished surface. Rigorous sanding, out to "ridiculous" grits, removes the end grain roughness and gives the finish no where to lodge.

This has obvious implications for heavily figured woods where the figure, in many cases, is effectively end grain breaking through the long grain surface.

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

I have got the best results ever using Osmo hard wax oil.
Sanded to 320 grit. painted on and then wiped off with a dry cloth.
Then a light sand when dry. Next coat. While wet I added a light sprinkling of pumice and used a pad like you would when French polishing for ten minutes. Then I took a clean cloth and wiped it all off.
I repeated this twice.
I sounds like I was taking off more than I was putting on but I think the results show that the quilting is enhanced with oil. I have not been able to achieve these results with French polishing using shellac. Perhaps this is because the oil has an egg shell like finish and so the shiney parts of the quilting stand out better. French polishing might just be too shiney for quilted maple. I am rather startled by this discovery.
It proves once again it pays to experiment a bit.

I apologise for the poor quality image taken with my telephone, I forgot to bring my SLR with me to the workshop. The autofocus in the telephone camera struggles with the depth of field on wood like this.

Finished just in time for the exhibiton on Saturday. Check out my blog, if you like, for great stuff by other furniture designers in the Netherlands http://www.cabinetsofcuriosity.eu

 

[Austinisgreat]

I have got the best results ever using Osmo hard wax oil.
Sanded to 320 grit. painted on and then wiped off with a dry cloth.
Then a light sand when dry. Next coat. While wet I added a light sprinkling of pumice and used a pad like you would when French polishing for ten minutes. Then I took a clean cloth and wiped it all off.
I repeated this twice.
I sounds like I was taking off more than I was putting on but I think the results show that the quilting is enhanced with oil. I have not been able to achieve these results with French polishing using shellac. Perhaps this is because the oil has an egg shell like finish and so the shiney parts of the quilting stand out better. French polishing might just be too shiney for quilted maple. I am rather startled by this discovery.
It proves once again it pays to experiment a bit.

I apologise for the poor quality image taken with my telephone, I forgot to bring my SLR with me to the workshop. The autofocus in the telephone camera struggles with the depth of field on wood like this.

Finished just in time for the exhibiton on Saturday. Check out my blog, if you like, for great stuff by other furniture designers in the Netherlands http://www.cabinetsofcuriosity.eu

Very nice Gerard 8)

Cheers

Andrew

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

At last a better picture of the quilted maple finish with Osmo oil.

 

[Austinisgreat]

At last a better picture of the quilted maple finish with Osmo oil.

Gerard,

That is lovely.

Really lovely.

Cheers

Andrew