Table saw for small (damp) workshop

[timbly]

Hi
This is my first post so please be easy on me..
I used to earn my living as a furniture maker but had to retire due to health issues. I was a one man band and like most woodworkers built up from basic kit to in the end a rather decent Felder combination - so I guess I was a little spoiled.
I'm in the process of helping set up a small workshop for my son. We're utilising an old outbuilding which has decent power/light and a concrete floor but otherwise is pretty damp and shoddy.
I've got an old Inca bandsaw which is still going strong after 20+ years and a decent sent of hand power tools but other than that we're starting from scratch.
Our first purchase will be a 10" table saw with a budget of up to £700ish. I've looked into the Record TS200C which looks a decent bit of kit but I'm a bit worried about the cast top in our damp old shed. The other saw that took my eye is the Metabo PK 255 which looks to have an ali deck and is lighter so easier for shifting out the way in a small space.. Other than those I've also considered portable site saws (not great for crosscutting but should be OK for ripping rough stock) namely the Bosch GTS 10 and the Makita 2704 - of these the Makita looks the more complete with a better cutting depth and width and a crude outfeed support - not sure about the brush motors though. I've also considered the Scheppach TKU4000 - a rough and ready site saw but which has an induction motor, might survive a damp environment well and should be good for ripping down with a full 4" cut but only a small width capacity without an add-on side extension.
Any thoughts on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. I've seen reviews of some sort or other on all of the above except the Metabo PK 255 which is the most expensive but looks OK spec. wise.
I really haven't got the space (or strength) to move a very large cast iron lump around the workshop so size and weight wise the Record or Metabo are probably as big as I want to go and if I'm honest the Record is heavier than I'd like but should be OK with the wheel kit.
Many thanks in advance
Tim

 

[maltrout512]

Hi Tim can't help you on the table saws, but as you have a damp work shop ali I would think be easier to maintain than cast and weight would be less of a problem when you move the saw about. I'm sure that there will be help regards ratings of the saws you have mentioned. All the best, nearly forgot welcome to the forum.

 

[markwuzere]

cant comment on the record but the metabo is a good saw easy to set up, dust extraction is average at best below table and useless above unless you make your own guard (i did) are you thinking of the full kit ie sliding carrage or just the basic saw?

 

[timbly]

Thanks for the replies.
Malcolm thanks for the welcome - I agree ali might be better in my situation.
Mark, I'm undecided on the sliding table - with it the price is pushing the £1000 mark! How good is the slide? - to justify it would need to be smooth and accurate with flip stop, long/extending fence etc.
Is the saw an easy set up or is there a lot of fiddling as repotedly with the Record?
Thanks
Tim

 

[markwuzere]

the slide on mine is great, asuming its the pk255v8 your talking about. set up was easy took about a day to initialy build and set up the saw then a couple of hours tweaking and now i just give it a quick check over every month or so, problem might be the footprint required, and the fact that it may not be that manoverable with the full setup

 

[ByronBlack]

The record only has a smallish CI top - the sled I think is Ali, so you only have a small area to protect, by all accounts, it's a decent saw.

 

[Chems]

As long as you wax it regularly the cast iron should be ok?

I got my SIP for £700 there are other bargains about.

 

[PAC1]

If it were me, I would make do with the bandsaw and use the 700 to sort the damp problem. Damp effects the quality of what you make as well as ruining good tools.

 

[woodbloke]

I had a look at the new Charnwood W650 at yandles a couple of weeks ago. In comparison to the Record, it's streets ahead. The Record, good though it is, doesn't have an outrigger on the slider which for me is mandatory. The price difference is negligible and the footprint is only slightly larger...runs off a 13A socket as well - Rob

 

[timbly]

Hi
Mark it's actually the PK 255 not the v8 I was looking at. The V8 is a much heavier more expensive panel saw - anyone use or have any views on the non v8 version ?? - it looks a similar spec'd saw to the Record only lighter because of the non cast top.
The SIP and Charnwood although undoubtebly great saws are both big heavy lumps. I guess what I'm after is a good quality smallish/lightish 10" saw predominately for ripping but if a decent slide is available crosscutting as well.
The Record still looks good but I'm concerned by the mixed reviews and build quality.
The Makita might be a good compromise with good depth and width of cut but I'm concerned by the stability and accuracy of such a small machine combined with the noisy brush motor - anyone have any thoughts on this one??
I've considered investing in the Festool multifunction table (mft3) with the smaller 55 saw for crosscutting as this has good reviews and is light and moveable - the downside is the near £1000 pricetag for the saw + table.

PAC1 thanks for your comments but a small bandsaw is far from ideal for regular ripping of big boards and it would take considerably more than £700 to improve the shed.

Again thanks for your input
Tim

 

[Mike.C]

If it were me, I would make do with the bandsaw and use the 700 to sort the damp problem. Damp effects the quality of what you make as well as ruining good tools.

Although I would not make do with a bandsaw I do agree that you should sort the damp out. Even more so now that you claim it will take a lot more than £700 to correct it, which shows that it must be very bad.

What are you going to do about all the other non ali tools etc that your son will have in his shop, how are you going to stop them rusting? And if the damp is that bad it is going to be pretty uncomfortable for him as a working enviroment. Couldn't you get some advice (there's plenty on here) about how to cure the damp and then buy the things needed and you and your son do the work yourselves?

Sorry to sound negative, but if the damp is really bad and your son is going to be working in there regally it is not going to be very nice for him, especially if mould and spores form.

EDIT I don't know how much you saw the Bosch GTS 10 for, but I have just received an email from Axminster which included a special off for this saw with £130 discount http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Bosc ... -32024.htm I have not looked at the prices on other sites to see how this price compares.



Cheers

Mike

 

[timbly]

Hi Mike
I kinda wish I'd never mentioned the damp.. It's a barn so the damp is atmospheric - no mold or spores. It's fine this time of year just not so good in the winter. We're lucky to have the space and while we can probably improve the situation somewhat it's never going to be a purpose made workshop unless I spend £000's.
I'm disabled hence not able to do the work myself anymore but my son has shown an interest and aptitude and I'm trying to set up a decently equipped hobby workshop for him without going silly.
All I really want is some advice on the saws I mentioned.
The Axminster deal on the Bosch is great but they're out of stock and not due back in until the end of May beginning of June - if i want the deal I'd have to part with my cash now and wait. To be honest I'm not sure if the Bosch is as good or versatile as the Makita - it has a great wheeled stand but smaller depth of cut and no provision for outfeed support table - again if anyone has personal experience with the Bosch or any of the other saws I'd love to hear from you..
All the best
Tim

 

[matt]

Hmmmm...

 

[Mike.C]

Hi Mike
I kinda wish I'd never mentioned the damp.. It's a barn so the damp is atmospheric - no mold or spores. It's fine this time of year just not so good in the winter. We're lucky to have the space and while we can probably improve the situation somewhat it's never going to be a purpose made workshop unless I spend £000's.
I'm disabled hence not able to do the work myself anymore but my son has shown an interest and aptitude and I'm trying to set up a decently equipped hobby workshop for him without going silly.
All I really want is some advice on the saws I mentioned.
The Axminster deal on the Bosch is great but they're out of stock and not due back in until the end of May beginning of June - if i want the deal I'd have to part with my cash now and wait. To be honest I'm not sure if the Bosch is as good or versatile as the Makita - it has a great wheeled stand but smaller depth of cut and no provision for outfeed support table - again if anyone has personal experience with the Bosch or any of the other saws I'd love to hear from you..
All the best
Tim

Oop's only trying to help. :roll: I won't mention the dreaded damp word anymore. It's just that on this forum there are very few members who would not deal with the damp in their workshop as a matter of urgency, but now I understand there is not much you can do about it.

If you were willing to consider an 8" blade with a 60mm depth of cut (how often will your son need to cut more then 2" or 50mm deep?) then there are at least 3 saws that are far superior to those you mention and come with a sliding table, rear and side extensions, and a stand/base as standard. One even has a wheel kit. These are the Scheppach TS2010, the Kity 419 and although it's cast iron the Axminster TS-200. The cast iron you can protect if you regually coat the table with Liberon Lubricating Wax.
I certainly would not right the 8" blade off. Just sit down and think of the sort of work your son and yourself will be doing. Is most of it going to be more than 60mm thick? If so then the above are no good, but if it's only going to be now and again, then these saws should at least be looked at.

Cheers

Mike

 

[head clansman]

hi

I'm sorry this not what you want to hear but it is a case of priorities, damp, before all else it's the first priority , it is as other have said no good placing good power or hand tools in there they will be ruined in no time at all, no good as you say it an old barn it would be like throwing money down the drain trying to stop the damp and as you yourself says it would cost thousands , better if you looked for something dryer and smaller that could be made toasty and dry , nothing worst than spending good money on good tools that normally last a life time , to start fighting rust constantly and they only last a few yrs . hc sorry mate it's not want you want to here, but the guys are being truthfull .

 

[Lons]

hi

I'm sorry this not what you want to hear but it is a case of priorities, damp, before all else it's the first priority , it is as other have said no good placing good power or hand tools in there they will be ruined in no time at all, no good as you say it an old barn it would be like throwing money down the drain trying to stop the damp and as you yourself says it would cost thousands , better if you looked for something dryer and smaller that could be made toasty and dry , nothing worst than spending good money on good tools that normally last a life time , to start fighting rust constantly and they only last a few yrs . hc sorry mate it's not want you want to here, but the guys are being truthfull .

+1

Cart before horse I'm afraid :?

Bob

 

[timbly]

Hi Guys..
Thanks for the advice and I know you're all right concerning working and storing tools in a damp environment. We'll try lining the space out and adding some heat and a dehumidifier - not totally ideal but hopefully an improvement.
Now back to saws. Mike thanks for your suggestions regarding 8" saws;
I like the look of the small Scheppach - how well put together is it and how good is the sliding table? Is it man enough for rough ripping 2" oak boards..?
Anyone have any experience with the larger Metabo Pk255 (non v8) as mentioned earlier?
Thanks again.
Tim

 

[woodbloke]

Your comment on the weight of the saws is interesting. If memory serves the SIP weighs in at around 260Kgs all up (inc the slider) the Record is around 95Kgs and the Charnwood is a mere 120kgs.
For the money I can't see much beating the Charnwood in most areas...2.2KW induction motor, ci tables with decent slider, 10" blade, good fence and fairly small footprint.

As to others comments on the damp issue, I have to agree, though it's not going to be muzak to your ears I'm afeard - Rob

 

[Mike.C]

Timbly wrote;

Mike thanks for your suggestions regarding 8" saws;
I like the look of the small Scheppach - how well put together is it and how good is the sliding table? Is it man enough for rough ripping 2" oak boards..?

As with any saw in this price range it will need setting up properly, but once you have finished fettling, it's 2.5hp induction motor will certainly be man enough to rip 2" oak. The sliding table is a smaller version to the one that I have on my SIP, and I have found it to be excellent on both saws. Another thing that you have to think about is the type of motor your new purchase has. As I have said this saw has an induction motor but some of the one's you have mentioned have a brush, which are very noisy and IMHO are not even in the same ball park to an induction.

Cheers

Mike

 

[timbly]

Hi all
The workshop is now all lined out and with some heating and a dehumidifier seems good to go..
My saw thoughts have changed somewhat - The choice now seems to be between;

1. Record TS200C (pros; small footprint, lightweight with wheel set, should be good for ripping, mostly good reviews. Cons; , doubtful about crosscutting carriage and quality of construction).
2. Charnwood W650 (pros; lightweight'ish, crosscutting carriage looks an improvement on the Record, powerful, extensions included in price. cons; can't find any reviews)
3. Jet JTS-600 (lightweight'ish, sliding table with outrigger!, powerful. cons; £300 more than Record, can't find any reviews)

If I had the space I think I'd get the much loved 10" SIP but I think my choice is limited to something smaller, lighter and easier to move around.
I've got a good quality mitre saw and am considering a festool plunge saw with guide rail for panels so table saw crosscutting abilities may be a red herring..

Again any thoughts and suggestions on any of the above much appreciated.
Thanks
Tim