I've run a branding/graphic design business for 14 years. Honestly your question doesn't have a simple answer, some people spend a lifetime distilling the essence of one brand. In the simplest terms: if your brand is working it should optimise the value of your product and create some level of recognition in a marketplace. But you're not Nike or Coca Cola and you could easily get bogged down. If you're a one man band, check out the competition, find out what they're using and do something different (the plane logo is a bit over-used). I'd go to one of a million logo farms or find an off-the-shelf solution, get an effectively-priced logo sorted out and move on with marketing your business.
Your opinion about logos.
- Thread starter philip sewell
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NickWelford
So many tools, so little to show
I know a little about web addresses. I would avoid an address with a hyphen in it. On many keyboards it’s a pain to hyphenate and some web sites don’t recognise a hyphen as a valid email character.
shed9
establiSHED member
Don't take my comments as a thread killer, I'm just reiterating the impact of openly discussing specific aspects of your yet to be released product/s. Keep the conversation going please but be mindful of specifics if you are not yet committed to them is all.
I commend your efforts and a new British tool maker should be thoroughly encouraged. I wish you well and genuinely hope you succeed.
AJB Temple
Finely figured
Do you have any idea what the market is for scribers? I suggest it is probably minuscule for a bespoke tool. It would still be minuscule even if the tool was very cheap.
If my guess is right, then building your brand on the base of a scriber, is a mistake. If you intend to bring a range of innovative tools to market, then your brand identity needs to be broader.
Logos only really become relevant when your brand is big enough to be recognised. It will not help sales at first unless your product screams innovation and quality. My feeling is you need to establish first what it is your are trying to do beyond sell a few scribers to a limited market.
Realism is fundamentally important when developing a business. First be clear about what market need you are trying to serve. That appears to me to be lacking currently.
If my guess is right, then building your brand on the base of a scriber, is a mistake. If you intend to bring a range of innovative tools to market, then your brand identity needs to be broader.
Logos only really become relevant when your brand is big enough to be recognised. It will not help sales at first unless your product screams innovation and quality. My feeling is you need to establish first what it is your are trying to do beyond sell a few scribers to a limited market.
Realism is fundamentally important when developing a business. First be clear about what market need you are trying to serve. That appears to me to be lacking currently.
shed9
establiSHED member
Totally agree with AJB Temple's comments, business realism is paramount. My day job is business development management, albeit a niche element of it, but I have seen enough excellent products never see the light of day because the business element was ignored. Admittedly it all depends on the expectations of the people involved, i.e. small hobby businesses with no real pressure on access to cash will rarely fall into that risk profile but if the intentions of the business are serious then an appreciation and understanding of starting / operating a business is vital.
Yes there are some small business ideas that get off the ground with little to no thought of the business process but this is an anomaly and doesn't reflect the number of similar business models that failed. I mention this as it has been thrown at me quite a few times as a defensive argument for not having a an actual business plan. Fluke success is not a business model.
Again, not a thread killer and I have no idea of the OP's business acumen but understanding the current or potential need for a product should be the driver of development as this dictates potential sales, the target market and the design itself.
Yes there are some small business ideas that get off the ground with little to no thought of the business process but this is an anomaly and doesn't reflect the number of similar business models that failed. I mention this as it has been thrown at me quite a few times as a defensive argument for not having a an actual business plan. Fluke success is not a business model.
Again, not a thread killer and I have no idea of the OP's business acumen but understanding the current or potential need for a product should be the driver of development as this dictates potential sales, the target market and the design itself.
philip sewell
Established Member
Fair enough AJB, thanks for your comments.
TheUnicorn
Established Member
Don't want to go on the attack, but I'd be interested to hear from those in the know about how legal it even is to sell an item based on / altered from a design in a book, surely the author / publisher would have a fair claim on a percentage. Maybe such items are considered to be public domain???
TheTiddles
Established Member
Based on, is the essential part there. By publishing it you are also putting it in the public domain so unless you have protected it before doing so and are willing to enforce, you automatically relinquish your right to protect it.
shed9
establiSHED member
Given the original design is not common and the product itself appears to not be a current item it is unlikely that there has been any upkeep of patent or design copyright even if there was any originally.
One other thing to be aware of is that 'Design Right' legalities in the UK have changed as of the EU exit.
TheTiddles
Established Member
Very true.
Unregistered design right is the Babycham of IP protection, I think even if I had copied someone’s design I’d not be scared of an enforcement action using it.
Aidan
PhilipL
Established Member
Easy enough to look up patents: EPO - Searching for patents The EPO is an international body, not an EU one. And maybe get some ideas for other products from lapsed patents.
FYI 'patents' cost (potentially) thousands and thousands of dosh.
Also FYI I've successfully 'design copyrighted' a TENT.
Also FYI I've successfully 'design copyrighted' a TENT.
PhilipL
Established Member
And maybe get some ideas for other products from lapsed design copyrights.
TheTiddles
Established Member
You can file a patent for a couple hundred, if you can do all the paperwork yourself, though as Phil says it’s not hugely innovative, so may not pass the test of being non-obvious.
You can register a design for less (£50 last time I looked), as in the physical appearance and configuration, it’s also easier paperwork, it can be done online in a few minutes.
Copyright refers to creative works like images, text and music.
None of these are global rights and are only tools to help you fight in court, which is where the serious spend can start.
Aidan
You can register a design for less (£50 last time I looked), as in the physical appearance and configuration, it’s also easier paperwork, it can be done online in a few minutes.
Copyright refers to creative works like images, text and music.
None of these are global rights and are only tools to help you fight in court, which is where the serious spend can start.
Aidan
EddyCurrent
Established Member
Because the angle of the pencil can be changed I like the name "Variscribe"
I'm against companies and products taking over a generic descriptive word or an ordinary unrelated word, eg Android, Chrome, Google (from googol) which are owned by Alphabet etc.
More suggestions:
Omniscribe
Multiscribe
Tooleyscribe
More suggestions:
Omniscribe
Multiscribe
Tooleyscribe
philip sewell
Established Member
I made my original one of these thirty years ago from an idea in a book. The one I'm producing now bears little similarity to the original albeit the principle is the same.
I've sold a few of these already and the customers have all been either sole traders or small furniture companies fitting their own furniture (which is where I thought they would sell if they were going to sell).
As I have already designed a compass set and might come up with some other ideas in the future it might be better to have a logo not specific to a type of tool and rather something I can add to future projects like Tooley Park Tools. Easily searched for rather than scriber (good idea though pils
)
Tooley Tools
My brother has a friend who runs a very successful marketing company so I'm hoping to get some thoughts from him.
I've sold a few of these already and the customers have all been either sole traders or small furniture companies fitting their own furniture (which is where I thought they would sell if they were going to sell).
As I have already designed a compass set and might come up with some other ideas in the future it might be better to have a logo not specific to a type of tool and rather something I can add to future projects like Tooley Park Tools. Easily searched for rather than scriber (good idea though pils
)Tooley Tools
My brother has a friend who runs a very successful marketing company so I'm hoping to get some thoughts from him.
very very funny! thank you for that. fyi it's not lapsed (yet
, it is significantly 'distinct' to extend 'tentness'. 
Tooley Tools
My brother has a friend who runs a very successful marketing company so I'm hoping to get some thoughts from him.
Philip,
You already have a logo and brand with Tooley Park.
I am a little worried that we are confusing you with so many suggestions, as someone pointed out earlier, in the end its your business and you need something practical that works for you.
Having said that , here is another comment.... I noticed that you already have a logo for Tooley Park. In my business about 15 years ago, we started to go down the path of having separate names and logos for each offer - partly because each one was a bit different and sometimes with different partners. However RR visited and told us our branding was all over the place, so we now just have the one brand and logo for everything but often have the name of the product etc along side of the logo. It was a pain to change at the time, but it has given us a much stronger brand over time.
philip sewell
Established Member
Thanks Tom, that's good advice.
It's a bit tricky because my furniture making is obviously not tool making so putting Tooley Park Furniture on the scriber might seem a bit odd to some people.
You are right though I've had so much advice on this I'm going around in circles a bit (not a complaint I hasten to add).
The other factor is how I put the logo on the scribers. I really like the stamp idea (partly because I can do this in house and not have to make journeys dropping scribes off and picking them up from the etchers, I live out in the sticks).
Some suggest etching, some think it's cheap!
If I go down the stamp route I imagine the logo has to be something relatively simple for it to work with a stamp and my TP Furniture logo probably isn't simple enough but I need to find that out.
It's a bit tricky because my furniture making is obviously not tool making so putting Tooley Park Furniture on the scriber might seem a bit odd to some people.
You are right though I've had so much advice on this I'm going around in circles a bit (not a complaint I hasten to add).
The other factor is how I put the logo on the scribers. I really like the stamp idea (partly because I can do this in house and not have to make journeys dropping scribes off and picking them up from the etchers, I live out in the sticks).
Some suggest etching, some think it's cheap!
If I go down the stamp route I imagine the logo has to be something relatively simple for it to work with a stamp and my TP Furniture logo probably isn't simple enough but I need to find that out.
