Your opinion about logos.

[TominDales]

Philip, A good logo would help you grow your sales. BUT I'd like to endorse what Artie said about doing a bit of research and planning before applying a logo. I work for a R&D manufacturing company and am on tech side, but have learned from the marketeers just how very important this is. We are now on our 3rd logo in 20 years of trading, if we had known then what we know now we would have avoided some mistakes. I'm not an expert, so suggest you read around a bit before taking the plunge.
Logos are part of your brand. Whether you like it or not, you have a brand and a brand image already. For instance, you make quality tools, you are a craftsman, over time you will get a good reputation and more people will buy your tools, a logo gives you more recognition in the market. Think Stanley or Veritas for a successful brand etc. If you make good tools then people will copy them, a logo and maybe a simple copyright will give you protection from cheaper poor quality copies. The Logo will give recognition, you could then start to project your designs with copyright etc if the size of business warrants it.
Read up or speak to someone from the more psychological expertise and a creative type before you choose your loga. A good logo is simple and says a bit about you, it is also easy to recognise when printed small (ie avoid a long string of letters or words in the logo). The other thing to consider is how divers is your product range. If you have high quality well made tools and some cheap and cheerful ones, then you might want to have two separate identities so you don't confuse your customer base. I think Stanley would do well to badge the cheap imports under a different brand to their quality tools, in my view they have damaged their brand by mixing the too.
I'm not an expert, but its worth considering the 'dark arts of marketing' before you launch your first logo. A cheap sticker could do more harm than good.
If you choose carefully then the same logo will endure as you grow your business. Good luck.

 

[TominDales]

I think this forum over engineers everything.
No business would ever start and costs incurred would be horendous if all advice was followed.

I was laughing with my business partner the other day about how we started, how little work we had, how we had no equipment, no plan, no money, the conclusion was thank god we didn't ask for advice otherwise we would never have started.

There is a big difference between wanting to be a "Brand" and having a "good honest business".

Having just given my two pennyworth of advice/caution, I must say there is truth in what Dr Bob says. Its do belive its worth planning a big step like a logo/brand image as your will be stuck with it for a long time. Changing your brand/logo wastes a chunk of the brand recognition you built up, so it is worth some thought. But I do agree with Dr Bob about having perspective. In the case of branding, we engineers are dabbling in an area we are not familiar with, it has its own skill and methods just like ours does, so its worth reading a few dos and dont's, so as not to make some basic errors.

 

[pils]

Hello Phillip
please feel free to completely ignore this but thought (as this is what I supposedly do) I'd 'knock something up'.

FYI these are sketches/thoughts: thescriber.co.uk is available.
In front of witnesses: completely free if you want it and I can send you jpg/png/eps and leave you to it.
with only the best intentions etc.
:]
ps. feel free to poohpooh it - I'm quite used to it. :]

 

[Padster]

Hello Phillip
please feel free to completely ignore this but thought (as this is what I supposedly do) I'd 'knock something up'.
View attachment 104698View attachment 104699View attachment 104700
FYI these are sketches/thoughts: thescriber.co.uk is available.
In front of witnesses: completely free if you want it and I can send you jpg/png/eps and leave you to it.
with only the best intentions etc.
:]
ps. feel free to poohpooh it - I'm quite used to it. :]

This is nothing to do with me and I have provided my opinion already - but I would like to comment on this post and say:
a) I like it
b) what an incredibly generous offer regardless @pils

The level of help we can get on this forum is great and I'm happy to be a part of it

Padster

 

[philip sewell]

Pils, that’s an extremely generous thing to do for me, I don’t quite believe it!

I have pm'ed you but I just want to say how much I appreciate it.

I like it.

Ok, what do other people think?

As the logo do we like “scriber”, “the scriber” or “the furniture scriber”

Setting up a separate site rather than affiliating it with my furniture site (I think this is a good idea).

If I had a separate site should I make the logo the url of the site.

So on the scribe would be “scriber.co.uk”, “the-scriber.co.uk”, or “furniture-scriber.co.uk.”

It would be clear where to get the tool from if I did this (for anyone who sees it on site) and providing the logo is permanent (ie not a sticker) in 10 years time when you want to order another half a dozen you will know exactly where to go.

If you were doing a search for a scriber for fitting furniture would you include “furniture” as a search word (I ask this as I believe it’s good to have search words in the url of the website).

I’m banging on about using “furniture” as “scribe” is a bit generic, do I drop furniture as it would make the logo too long and not necessarily.

This is fantastic market research for me and I really do appreciate the input.

Thanks again.
Philip.

 

[JohnPW]

"So on the scribe would be “scriber.co.uk”, “the-scriber.co.uk”, or “furniture-scriber.co.uk.”"

I think they're too generic. It's like a screwdriver named as "The screwdriver", or a plane branded as "The Plane".

I'd go with the usual naming convention: Company name-model name-product name, eg Stanley Handyman number 4 plane.

So it would be www.tooley-park.co.uk for the website, and Tooley Park Scriber No 01 for the product name, for example.

 

[Droogs]

how about either uni-scriber for universal or omni-scriber rather than generic scriber?

 

[pils]

It should be referred to as "the 'scriber'". the logo is just "scriber". "the 'scriber'" can be seen as a product/company under tooley-park as means of cross-selling. How one does that is entirely up to you. you should ALWAYS go for the shortest possible URL. THEN, assuming you've got a few quid, buy the domains akin to the ones mentioned by JohnPW / Droogs as markers/pointers to thescriber.co.uk (and use these domains/names/words as marketing/ad avenues)
IMHO.
:]

 

[artie]

. It's like a screwdriver named as "The screwdriver", or a plane branded as "The Plane".

Not actually a bad idea. There are many scribers, but this is THE scriber

 

[philip sewell]

If I have "scriber" as the logo (which I like) this won't help anyone who sees it know where to purchase it.
If I have "scriber.co.uk" as the logo that would obviously point people in the right direction to buy it.
Do companies use their url as their company (and therefore logo) name and is this a good/bad idea for the scriber?
Phil

 

[pils]

how many 'faces' does the scriber have available?
remember it's "thescriber.co.uk" as 'scriber.co.uk' is not available (though may become available in june if whomever doesn't renew it)
I, personally, would use both sides. Scriber on one; thescriber.co.uk on t'other. imho as ever.

 

[philip sewell]

There could be lettering on both sides or I could put "thescriber.co.uk" below the pencil holder which wouldn't be so obvious but would be visible enough to read.

Would "the-scriber.co.uk" be better or am I over thinking it?

 

[shed9]

Would "the-scriber.co.uk" be better or am I over thinking it?

I think you need to at least register the serious contenders before asking a public forum which one you should go for.

Your thread has >1000 views and 51 replies from multiple members. You're musing very cheap options which are readily available to anyone viewing this, just saying.

 

[pils]

They

There could be lettering on both sides or I could put "thescriber.co.uk" below the pencil holder which wouldn't be so obvious but would be visible enough to read.

Would "the-scriber.co.uk" be better or am I over thinking it?

I'm reductionist. Therefore, thescriber.co.uk. however, that doesn't stop you from buying multiple domain names (as they're comparatively cheap) which point to one domain. I understand the 'space' between the and scriber but imho it's not going to make sales/ a difference. this is all my opinion.

 

[akirk]

Just be aware that if you call a product what it is as a brand you have zero IP protection - you can not trademark something which just states what it is, so as it is a scriber or something to scribe you are simply being descriptive and if I wanted to call my version (not that I am capable of making one! ) Scriber B or similar you would not be able to stop me...

calling it something non related like The Tooley Park Scriber or the Tooley Scriber would give you more protectable uniqueness...

A lot depends on what you think the market is - are you looking to sell them in their 10s / 100s / 1000s? Will the brand grow to include other items or just be this?This helps drive whether you need to protect the IP / care hugely about the domain or brand... etc. If IP protection and brand is important then do it properly - which includes trademarking etc. If not then don’t over-worry... and in that scenario the brand is simply about value perception rather than anything more...

 

[Blaidd-Drwg]

This has been one of the most valuable discussions I've found (so far) on the forum. When I was taking the professional course at Chippendale Furniture School (yes this is a plug and I highly recommend it), we went over all of the different points that have been made here. From "to logo, or not to logo" to how to navigate and utilize social media and on to graphic design tools, they showed me that creating an identity for your business isn't just about one thing but about a suite of tools that you can pick and choose from based on your needs, capabilities, and of course money.

I haven't really begun to build my business yet, but have been deciding where and how to build my online and local presence and how to market myself (which is by far and away the most difficult part for me). I have decided that consistency is very big. No matter how you decide to market yourself make sure it is consistent across all media. That way people may recognize either your name, or your logo, or your posts on social media and you eventually become a known quantity to them and they can feel comfortable reaching out to you as they feel that they already know you. This also goes for local marketing. There is a plethora of free local marketing for small businesses as long as you know where to look, and it isn't always obvious. It may be that volunteering at a school or local community organization gets you noticed by someone who knows someone who needs your services, or it may be your business card pinned to a bulletin board at the local pub or market.

 

[pils]

Just be aware that if you call a product what it is as a brand you have zero IP protection - you can not trademark something which just states what it is, so as it is a scriber or something to scribe you are simply being descriptive and if I wanted to call my version (not that I am capable of making one! ) Scriber B or similar you would not be able to stop me...

calling it something non related like The Tooley Park Scriber or the Tooley Scriber would give you more protectable uniqueness...

A lot depends on what you think the market is - are you looking to sell them in their 10s / 100s / 1000s? Will the brand grow to include other items or just be this?This helps drive whether you need to protect the IP / care hugely about the domain or brand... etc. If IP protection and brand is important then do it properly - which includes trademarking etc. If not then don’t over-worry... and in that scenario the brand is simply about value perception rather than anything more...

All true. One could (may be able to), however, 'design copyright' (the design) and 'trademark' (the name) if one wants to get so involved. There are hundreds of 'scribers' already out there yet this one is 'different' enough (for those who can't (be bothered to) make their own) and desirable enough. Phillip appears to have a background sufficient to create a narrative/story, appears to be committed to create a consistent product with, in all likelihood, caring post sales 'conversation'. All the things sadly lacking in most business models. I use 'narrative' as a 'brand' replacement.

 

[shed9]

All this talk of design copyright is completely moot. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from making that exact design.

The other is a simple scribing tool for fitting furniture. I confess this is a design I found many years ago in a book. I knocked one up and it’s been such a useful tool for many years on site I thought I’d make a better version to see if it would be of any interest to anyone.

This is a really useful thread and I'm learning from it but be aware this is public domain and this very conversation impacts the release of any eventual released product. Not necessarily a bad thing but be mindful of it.

 

[philip sewell]

Shed7 is of course right anyone could make the same tool. I did get the idea from a book but I have developed the concept so it’s a much better version and I like to think well made (whilst keeping it affordable I hope).

I asked the original question because someone who bought one suggested some kind of branding would be a good idea and things have developed from that with all the ideas from people and again I do appreciate the advice.

Time to put some ideas into action now.

Thanks again everyone.
Phil.

 

[TheTiddles]

We had a working name for a product once, then the company brought in a marketing agency to give the product its “proper” name, which happened to be the same as the working name and also that used by a large information website, so it would only ever be the second hit or worse on a search engine. The price of their work could have bought a house (and not a small one in the north)

Aidan