Yet another table saw thread.

[JimNoble]

Yeah, sorry folks, another one. I have read pretty much every other related thread though, and I'm still unsure.

I'm currently working on building some free-standing shelves for the airing cupboard. I have a Trend T9 and M&T jig which is doing sterling work on the joints, but cutting the timber to length with a hand saw is proving somewhat tedious and inaccurate.

I've been prevaricating around the bush for some time trying to decide whether to buy a table saw or some sort of multi-function workbench (for use with my circular saw & router).

My current "workshop" (ie the garage) is having a new roof put on shortly, so I'm not able to provide a home for "proper" woodworking tools just yet (and I'm having to make do with a metalworking bench!). Eventually the garage will be sorted though, and partitioned to form a modest workshop at the back complete with permanent benchery and perhaps space for more substantial machinery.

Until then, anthing I buy has to be easily luggable at least, preferable not take up vast amounts of space when not in use, and still be of some use when the workshop eventually gets sorted out.

If the shelves work out, I'll probably progress onto some simple cabinetry, and perhaps eventually on to building replacement bedroom wardrobes :shock:

So, I've looked at the Triton workcentre and Draper Magnum workbench (especially the triton for the router table functionality). However, I am concerned that they might not represent the best long term purchase (can't really see how they'd fit into a "permanent" workshop).

A small-ish table saw on the other hand, won't take up much space in the short term, and there's the possibility of adding an Incra TS-LS fence (perhaps with a router insert) to expand the capabilities. Later I could cut a table-saw-sized hole in the top of a plain workbench to form a larger saw and/or router table.

Anyway, after much faffing I settled on the Delta 36525:
http://www.deltamachinery.co.uk/products/tooldetail.php?toolid=16
on the basis that the table is roughly the right length for use with that Incra fence, and fairly priced at ~275 quid (including support stand and extension tables.

Unfortunately, when I placed the order I discovered that Delta have been bought by Black and Decker and thus all of their products are currently unavailable (while they're all re-branded?). D'Oh! :roll:

Are there any other table saws with a c.27-28" long table and "standard" sized mitre slots, that could be used with an incra fence, for around £300? Or is that asking too much of the budget?

Jim

 

[George_N]

So, I've looked at the Triton workcentre and Draper Magnum workbench (especially the triton for the router table functionality). However, I am concerned that they might not represent the best long term purchase (can't really see how they'd fit into a "permanent" workshop).

Jim

A few people who post on this forum have Triton Workcentres, me included. It is pretty versatile giving you table saw and crosscut saw functions in one unit. It isn't really a cheap option though, if you go for all the add-ons but it is well made and you can do pretty accurate work with it. Like any piece of kit there is a certain amount of fettling to do to get the best out of it but all-in-all I've been happy with mine. I use mine with a 7.5" Makita saw but I think it would be even better with the big Triton saw. The Draper Magnum looks like a B&D workmate. I'm not sure what sort of fence it uses either. The Triton fence is very solid, locking at both ends.

cheers

George

 

[les chicken]

Jim

I do not see the point in buying a cheapo type saw and then adding a fence that is worth more than the saw. I would wait for your garage to be settled then buy a decent table saw and possibly add the fence later if needed.

If you are interested I have the draper type equivalent complete with extension wings and stand. I would ask for £75 complete retails £200+ a bit heavy to post but I am in Newport S Wales. I upgraded to the SIP last year a nice piece of kit in my opinion.

Les

 

[JimNoble]

I hear what you're saying, but I need to get something now - could be months before the garage work is finally sorted.

The fence wouldn't just be for the table saw though - the intention would be to build a combined saw and router table.

Perhaps I would be better off buying a el-cheapo £100 table saw now, and ditch it in favour or something more substantial if/when I have a proper workshop?

...and there was me thinking I'd finally finished going round in circles... :roll: ](*,)

Jim

 

[RogerM]

Perhaps I would be better off buying a el-cheapo £100 table saw now, and ditch it in favour or something more substantial if/when I have a proper workshop?

...and there was me thinking I'd finally finished going round in circles... :roll: ](*,)

Jim

Jim - you could buy something cheap on Ebay, and then when you have your garage sorted you could take your time to find something more suitable and permanent. As an example, if you bought something like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-SIP-10-255mm- ... dZViewItem you could probably resell it on Ebay for close to what you paid for it. Just my two penn'orth.

 

[tombo]

Jim,

i'l give my standard response get an xcalibur accept no substitue but if space is an issue have you thought about one of these
Can do most anything a table saw can do, and specialy good at breaking down sheet materials, its certainly on my shopping list.

By the way i see you have good taste in cars , that make 3 westy owners on the forum (well at least that i know of, there may be more who have non obvious avatars). So whats under the hood???

Tom

 

[JimNoble]

Jim - you could buy something cheap on Ebay, and then when you have your garage sorted you could take your time to find something more suitable and permanent. As an example, if you bought something like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-SIP-10-255mm- ... dZViewItem you could probably resell it on Ebay for close to what you paid for it. Just my two penn'orth.

That is sounding like a more cunning plan...

Jim

 

[JimNoble]

Jim,
i'l give my standard response get an xcalibur accept no substitue but if space is an issue have you thought about one of these
Can do most anything a table saw can do, and specialy good at breaking down sheet materials, its certainly on my shopping list.

An Xcalibur would be nice, yes! What's been up with WoodfordWM's website though? It's back now, but none of the images in the shop are there.

Not sure I "get" the Festool system. How does it work?

By the way i see you have good taste in cars , that make 3 westy owners on the forum (well at least that i know of, there may be more who have non obvious avatars). So whats under the hood???

I noticed it seemed to be nigh on pre-requisite so thought I'd better dig out my WSCC avatar

It's a 1800 Zetec Speedsport.

Jim

 

[RogerS]

Hi Jim

There are quite a few threads on working with large sheets (8 x 4), ease of use, accuracy of cutting 90 degree parallel sides and repeatability.

One school of thought is to use the festool TS55 or 75 (max depth of cut is the difference) and the guide rail. The festool is a cut above many (most?) other circular saws as, when used in conjunction with the guide rail, the special design of the festool and the right blade, you can cut pretty well damn near perfect cuts ..in a straight line and with minimal tearout.

So I now use it exclusively for cutting not only sheet material but ripping oak floor boards (which would have previously been done on my table saw), cutting and trimming worktops (if it's a straight cut you need then the finish is as good as a router IMHO). I put a sacrificial sheet of fibreboard on the floor and lay my material down on that.

Busily refurbishing a flat (new oak floor..not laminate :wink: , new kitchen, bespoke kitchen carcass) and i took down my thicknesser, table saw and Festool TS55. Thicknesser used once...table saw used once...Festool ...all the time :lol:

 

[JimNoble]

Update - yesterday I popped over to Isaac Lord in High Wycombe and ended up buying a Fox F36525 table saw, which is a clone of the Delta I failed to buy earlier!

One major difference though - it was about half the price! £149 including Stand, two side tables, and two roller topped support things for using with larger panels.

Pretty happy with that

The stand was a bit of a pig to put together. Had to relieve one of the holes with a file to get one of the bolts in. Haven't adjusted the splitter and blade alignment yet though, so it's got to come off again anyway :roll:

The fence looks a bit tricky to clamp down straight. To be expected for the price though I suppose. Still, it'll do until the workshop is sorted!

Jim

 

[OPJ]

I see mention of the Delta 36-525 table saw - I have the very same saw, a little cheaper, sold under the "FOX / Delta France" badge (http://www.rutlands.co.uk).

I don't have much space in my garage/workshop either, and I'm currently thinking of fixing up this saw and flogging it on eBay. I'm after a bandsaw you see.

There's a fair bit of play in the mitre slots, which needs attention. The fence requires a little re-drilling and some new, decent machine screws to get it to stay straight and accurate. A new saw blade is a probably a must (it was for me). The scale is plain bizzare - it seems to bear no relation to the distance between saw blade and rip fence whatsoever! And I can't seem to get the blade parallel to the mitre slots, despite what they say.

Most recently, though, my saw has become very unsafe to use. The riving knife swings freely from left to right. The blade itself appears to jump up, down and even wobble if you sight down it's thickness in running. Plus, after fitting the new blade, I realised it wasn't that the supplied one was bent after all - the saw appears to give it a natural 'curvature' upon tightening the securing bolt - not the best when you want accurate cross-cutting.

If I could turn back time now, I'd have saved my money for a bandsaw and instead bought one of those three-in-one [rip, cross-cut and mitre!] flipover saws, I reckon. It might also be handy to have a cheap, cordless circular saw to hand and a straight edge guide with a couple of saw horses?

I've had the table saw since Januray last year, these problems have only occured in the last month. I've clearly upset something - and, surprise, surprise, there's not even the slightest clue in the manual as to how to go about dealing with such an issue.

At first, it seems like real good value for the money, and I still think it is, really. But, like all cheap machinery, it needs a little extra work to get it really good enough for how you want it. Unless, of course, you can cope without one altogether?

 

[JimNoble]

There's a fair bit of play in the mitre slots, which needs attention.

Any suggestions for a possible remedy there? Is it just that the protractor thing is too small/loose, or is the slot actually too big?

The fence requires a little re-drilling and some new, decent machine screws to get it to stay straight and accurate.

I'll look into that, ta.

A new saw blade is a probably a must (it was for me).

I picked up an 80 tooth Trend blade at the same time. (More teeth == cleaner cut, right? If so, what's the downside?)

The scale is plain bizzare - it seems to bear no relation to the distance between saw blade and rip fence whatsoever!

Do you have the thin material fence adapter attached? That'll offset the scale by 40mm of course. Mind you, the scale is just stuck on - could easily have been stuck in the wrong place!

And I can't seem to get the blade parallel to the mitre slots, despite what they say.

Mine's dead square out of the box. Exactly 95mm from the right hand mitre slot at the front and back edges of the blade.

Most recently, though, my saw has become very unsafe to use. The riving knife swings freely from left to right. The blade itself appears to jump up, down and even wobble if you sight down it's thickness in running. Plus, after fitting the new blade, I realised it wasn't that the supplied one was bent after all - the saw appears to give it a natural 'curvature' upon tightening the securing bolt - not the best when you want accurate cross-cutting.

That's a bit alarming. I noticed that the knife has a lot of play in it. Makes a bit of a mockery of the instructions to adjust it to line up with the blade really. Better than being stuck fast in the wrong place though I guess?

I'll check mine for blade wobble when running. I removed it when checking out the play in the knife, but didn't notice it warp when tightening it up again. (Do you still have the big washer between the nut and the blade?)

I noticed a couple of other issues with mine when I was adjusting the knife alignment. Firstly, one of the bolts that holds the extruded aluminium top down had no thread. I don't mean it had been stripped, it actually had no thread whatsoever - just a smooth pin with a hex head! :shock:

Even more bizarrely, the flange nut was somehow fairly well attached to it, and only fell off after much heaving the whole thing about putting the stand together. Fortunately, I had a spare M8 30mm bolt with which to replace it.

Putting back together I noticed that without the extra grip of this nada bolt, the sheet steel box of the saw had slipped at one end, making it more parallelogram like. It didn't affect alignment of the blade though, as the motor/blade frame is separate from the outer box and bolted directly to the table.

Secondly, try as I might, I could not get the 4th bolt into the last hole holding the saw to the stand. It just plain doesn't line up, despite copious heaving and shoving. It's fairly solid with 3 bolts in, so that will do for now. The downside of using a mass produced flat-packed construct-it-yourself stand I guess...

At some point I'll take it all apart again and make some "adjustments". Might even take the opportunity to replace the bolts with some sort of quarter turn panel fitting, for quick dismantling...

Lastly, one of the side extension tables is fractionally too long. I had to file down the "tongues" so that the extension would slot into the table properly. I suspect I'll have to actually dismantle it and shave a bit off the end though, as the extra length also means the slot along the front end (that the fence clamps to) doesn't line up perfectly.

I can certainly see while so many people complain about the cheaper tables. Still, I'd much rather learn what's good and what's not on a 150 quid one than one costing several hundred... :lol:

Jim

 

[OPJ]

Jim,

I found that either the bar itself is too small or that the slot is too big for it. Either way, you can wrap the bar in parcel tape for a quick-fix, believe it or not! Apparently, you can also "pinch" the edges of the bar to create a tight fit. Or, alternatively, machine some t-shaped hardwood and replace it.

As for getting the fence to lock properly, I'll hopefully be able to get some photos on here tomorrow to explain it better.

Yes, I do use that black fence-attatchment-thing on my rip fence but the scale still appears to be out!

You're incredibley fortunate to have the blade dead-square, factory set out of the box, I tell ya!! One in a million! :wink:

My riving knife seemed fine at first, it's only really since I replaced the blade and gave it a good beating for failing square the blade up that it went all left-to-right.

Yes, I've still got the convex-faced washer in place. I can't see any way to install the blade accurately without it, you see. And it seems as if the whole blade carriage unit isn't fastened securely, but I can't see a way to tighten it up without taking the whole bleedin' saw apart!! :evil:

If you're gonna do a fair bit of adjustment from time to time, you might want to get yourself a mixed set of countersunk machine screws, just incase.

I always struggle to get the last bolt into the base of the saw also, especially with that pain-in-the-side cover free to move.

I've had no serious problems with the extension tables. Occasionally, I find them a little tough to thread into one side, and the rip fence seems to get stuck when sliding over the joint - but that's about it.

Overall, I still think this is a pretty damn good saw for the money. But clearly, corners have been cut in the manufacturing department - it just needs that little bit of extra work and attention to get things spot on.


Do you also have problems with vibration when ripping, say, 2" thick stock?

When the measure the base of your leg stand, do you also find it to be out of square? Is is it because of me assembling on a terribley uneven concrete floor?

 

[engineer one]

sometime ago i bought a dewalt 744, nice fence, and it has cut a lot of sheet materials for me.

so now i want to put it on a base inside my workshop, and am wondering what is the best ( or whatever!) height to the top of the saw table.

i keep hearing about 900 mm, but wonder whether anyone has any good ideas as to why that is a good height, or should it be higher?

i am about 5ft 10 so i wonder whether there is an optimal height for me.

i could of course use the dewalt stand, but want to add dust collection etc.
and also make up side tables and maybe even add a router table. i kind of like the design in popular woodworking about 3-4 years ago, but what about the height???

paul :? :wink:

 

[OPJ]

Paul,

One thing to consider would be the height of your other workshop machinery. If you set it to the same height as your bandsaw (one example), that would give you an extended outfeed table instantly.

Just a thought. :wink: