Yet another casting infill plane.....

[gasman]

It is becoming a habit - thought I was done with this but my wife went and got me a mitre plane casting from St James Bay Tool Co for my birthday. I have been busy with other projects so only got going on Sunday....
Here is wot I got when I unpacked it

I haven't weighed it but it is another meaty bit of bronze - about 3.5 kg or so
I started with a 4" belt sander set up carefully at 90 degrees to the bench with a 60G new belt on it - plus some 80G paper stuck to the bench
Quite quickly got the bottom flat and the sides roughly sanded

Found I had some 6mm ground flat step left which I thought would do very well for a base - I need to decide whether to epoxy this or to sweat it on - trouble is they are both big ol lumps of metal and will take more heat than I can get to them probably

I decided quickly this is going to have a modified Norris adjuster so started with some 1/4 inch silver steel round bar and threaded it with a 1/4" 40 tip die. Also used a cut off bit of 3/4" round bar to make the pivot piece - and tapped that with a corresponding tap

Finally in this little intro session I thought about the little bit which locks into the blade - can't remember what its called now. Jim Kingshotts book 'Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools' is so fantastic in all respects it is my bedtime reading ATM!
So I cut off a little bit of 1/2" plate and milled this then drilled a 5mm hole in it to take the end of the threaded rod

I've got some wenge somewhere, or a 6x3x3" black ebony block which I could make the infills out of - or even some lovely oak burr but I fancy a bigger contrast than my 2 beech infills. I'll have a look this weekend
Regards to all
Mark

 

[Bm101]

Please keep updating as you go Gasman. Really looking forward to seeing how you get on especially as you say you've done it before. Loads of pics and tips would be fantastic. I'm messing about with a little stanley 110 trying to make something decent from it at the moment. Nothing like the scale of yours of course but any tips and information always helps.
Cheers
Chris

 

[Bedrock]

Mark
Re wenge v ebony, I have a couple of pieces of wenge, and used part for the sole of a David Barron type high angle smoother. I found that I could not achieve a crisp edge to the end grain of the sole, and with use it has continued to "fray". The splinters are vicious and, as warned in my "Wood identification and use", do go septic.

FWIW, I would go with the ebony.

Regards Mike

 

[rxh]

I'll be following this thread with keen interest. I think sweating is the way to go if you want a truly long lasting joint. I haven't tried sweating such large items but I think it could be done using a barbecue (even a disposable one) as a heat source.

 

[Racers]

Wait until the wife has gone out and pop it on the aga ;-)

Pete

 

[gasman]

Many thanks for your comments gentlemen
Pete I agree that could be the way - have done some research on sweating a sole and seems pretty straightforward actually
I wonder if barbecue underneath and blow torch from above would be a good way to go? Seems fairly straightforward. we will see
We had guests over the weekend so I didn't get much done until sunday afternoon
I changed the grits on the belt sander and worked my way through to 240 - all quite easy and still seemed square

Had a look at the 6mm gauge plate and cut it 2mm over width

Rounded off the corners

The base is going to look nice I think if I can sweat it on well - now wondering if I should have cut it after sweating - I will just have to clamp it up loosely before heating as the solder sets

I turned my attention to silver soldering. Jim Kingshott's book seemed to trivialise it but I found a Youtube video explaining it pretty well and it seemed fairly simple so I ordered this kit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331884859321?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I thought an old fire grate might be a good place to do the work

Heres the bits that needed soldering - the traveller - I had made one and then another as a backup - so I silver solvered both

I mixed up the flux to 'the consistency of single cream' as instructed
I used a butane burner which worked fine

Here's the 2 travellers after soldering but before cleaning up

And here's where the whole adjuster has got to - all fine I think - needs the plate cutting to size and shaping, me to work out how to attach the plate to the rest of it to allow it to swivel, and the adjuster knob making plus generally cleaning up but OK I think

One of the things I think is outstanding about Kingshott's book is giving novices like me the confidence to try something that is 'new' - and I think sweating on the sole will be the next thing to have a go at. Can I ask if people think I should c cut the mouth in the bronze before putting the sole on or cut them at the same time on the mill which is my hunch??
Thanks all
Regards Mark

 

[Racers]

The mass of the body is greater than the sole so it will take more heating so I would bbq the body and blowtorch the sole.
I would cut the mouth before sweating the sole on.

Pete

 

[gasman]

Thanks Pete
Another thing has occurred to me. The sole of the casting is about 6 or 7mm thick and the inside is obviously rough. Add to that the 6mm steel plate I'm going to add and you get a meaty 13mm sole. However, if I want a 16 degree angle for the blade, then according to my rusty maths, that means that the length of the bevelled part of the sole will be 13/tan16 which is about 41mm. That seems a bit excessive to me - so I may mill the inside out a bit to make it (a) flat and (b) thinner - any better suggestions? I definitely think it needs a steel sole on it but I wonder what the makers intended?
Cheers
Mark

 

[AndyT]

I'm sure you are well set up for success and have no direct experience to offer. But I did once talk to a chap in Bristol Design about their own range of bronze planes with steel soles and he said the sweating job was done in a small kiln. If you happen to know a potter, this could be another option.

 

[gasman]

Nice idea Andy thanks
Any thoughts about the sole being too thick?? Does it matter if there is a 40mm long metal slope where the blade will rest - I guess not?
Cheers Mark

 

[n0legs]

The bronze will heat up more readily than the steel and the solder will prefer to bond with it than the steel.
I think I would pre-tin the steel sole first then sweat both together. Clean clean clean is the order of the day for a successful solder joint.
Get it hot and introduce the solder. It will creep into the joint easily.

 

[Racers]

If you can mill a 40mm bevel then go for it, You can't have to much support, just make sure once the infill is in the blade is still flat, Carl Holtey has a brass pin at the back to avoid problems with the infill moving if you could do a final cut on the mouth and pin that would be good.

I would lightly tin both surfaces wire it tightly together and heat it up.

Pete

 

[gasman]

I had an hour or so yesterday - and started milling the bronze casting

I flattened the whole of the rough inside with a 12mm milling cutter and it came out reasonably. I don't think my mill is accurate enough to get rid of these swirly marks completely - not that it matters as this will all be hidden by infills. I had probably taken about 2 or even 3 mm off the inside so that the final thickness of the sole will be about 10mm. This means that the minimum length of the bevel will be 10/tan 16 = 34mm

Then started to think about the mouth. I cannot find any instructions, but after doing a bit of research most of the mitre planes I have seen on the web seem to have the mouth about 40% of the way from the front so I used this as a basis for the plans

I mounted the casting at 16 degrees in the vice

Then realised that the cutter didn't project enough not to be fouled by the sides - so had to withdraw the cutter a bit - and then I ran out of time so will pick it up tomorrow
Cheers
Mark

 

[gasman]

The weekend was frustrating and I would love some advice about how to proceed...
I milled out the mouth of the bronze then cleaned up the corners with files - all good

Then cut the base down to size

Decided to round the back corners of the sole - I can always change this a bit once it is sweated on. Clamped up as I decided to add 2 locating screws to stop it slipping around on the molten solder when I sweat it on. So I clamped it up

Drilled 4mm holes through the base and into the steel sole

Drilled out those holes in the sole to about 4mm depth and then tapped very slowly using lots of cutting fluid with a 5mm bottom tap

After enlarging the holes in the base to 5mm I could then secure with 2 screws. There are only about 2 viable threads in each hole but it should serve its purpose which is to locate rather than compress

Here's where I got into trouble
This is the kit I had assembled to tin the bronze base and the sole - meths to degrease, flux, solder, a blow torch, soldering iron

I cleaned and degreased the flat surface, fluxed it, heated up the sole with the blowtorch until it was hot, then added the solder and whatever I did it just formed molten balls on the surface - and was very reluctant to be spread out on the surface by any means.
So I just wonder whether anyone could advise me - I suspect that either (1) I have the wrong flux (2) I have the wrong solder (3) the surface isn't hot enough - so maybe I need to fire up a charcoal barbecue?? Pete nice idea about the Aga but (a) It is off for the summer and and (b)I would get skinned alive
Any advice gratefully received
Thanks all
Mark

 

[Racers]

Sounds like a problem with the flux, or heating up the sole burnt it off/oxidised the surface.
I would clean the surface then sand it with fine grit wet and dry, clean it again, lather it with plumbing flux and heat from underneath.
You could do with much bigger gauge solder it will take lots to tin the metal, wipe the excess off while its hot.

Pete

Scrubbing with a small wire brush dipped in flux can help break through the oxidation

 

[gasman]

Thanks Pete great advice I will get some thicker shtuff. I have more flux on the way too
Mark

 

[n0legs]

Mark, is it a lead free solder you tried with?

On brass and bronze I usually use La-Co Regular or if you can get it La-Co Brite liquid flux. I find the Brite to be a bit more aggressive.
Templers Telux is another excellent flux if you can't get any of the others.
Bakers Fluid is lovely on steel, but not so good on non ferrous.
Pete's advice is good and I can only echo the "clean clean clean" mantra.
A nice bit of mole skin smothered in tallow will make a wiping cloth to be proud of, a bit of cotton folded so there's no frayed edges will do though.
If you go with the wire brush idea use a brass brush, it will cut down the risk of cross contamination being similar in make up to the bronze.
A stick of Tinman's Solder would work wonders for you with this IMO. Also known as 60/40.

 

[gasman]

Many thanks NoLegs for your advice
I think I have a good plan once the new solder and flux arrive
Will keep you posted hopefully this weekend
Cheers
Mark

 

[gasman]

A couple of productive hours on saturday morning
I finally managed to do the tinning. It was Pete's comment that made it work in my head I think when he said that I should get some thicker diameter solder and that it would take quite a bit to do it - so I realised it would be quite a thick layer. So, clean clean clean, then flux then my blowtorch and it gradually got a thickish layer of solder all over

Heres the sole and the casting both tinned

And here they have my 2 screws loosely holding them together

Now I was feeling very pleased with my self and, amazingly, got permission from SWIMBP to use the Aga to sweat the sole on

Then there was a marvellous moment when the solder suddenly melted and it all seemed to drop together

There now seemed to be a very narrow gap which all looked good.

Whilst it was still very hot I clamped it up which squeezed out a bit more solder and then left it to cool

The following morning I took the clamps off and it all fell apart
As you can see there is nothing stuck to the steel sole at all - but a very thin layer over the bronze casting

It just doesn't seem to have stuck to the steel at all. I am giving up and have ordered some more epoxy metal putty which worked fine for an earlier model. I have no idea what I did wrong but any advice gratefully received
Thanks everyone
Cheers Mark

 

[Racers]

I guess the flux wasn't right for the steel, it should have bonded to the steel.

Pete