Workshop setup help needed!

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

This is my first post here but I have been lurking for a couple of weeks and searching your archives. I need some help setting up my workshop which is a little small as it is only a 10'x8' shed. However it is also a little empty, apart from a sturdy bench that I have just finished. Here-in lies the problem - all of the woodwork I have ever really done has been constructional joinery - strong, but like the bench, a little lacking in finesse. As a result I have never been able to justify expensive hand tools and hence I don't have any! I am about to start on a project building some furniture for the house so I now have that justification. The first project will be a set of kitchen cupboard doors in a simple shaker style, probably in ash with veneered flat panels. They will be followed by a couple of bookcases.

SWMBO has set me a budget for tools for these projects of about £600 (a little negotiating is probably possible but not too much) and I need advice on how to spend it.

I currently have a full range of handyman tools - of which the following are probably useful for my latest venture.

Circular saw
Pillar drill
Router and table
Cheap & nasty Stanley chisels
Layout tools,
Hammers, Mallets, Screwdrivers,


As I see it I would benefit from.

Bandsaw/Tablesaw
Block plane
#4 smoothing plane
#7 jointer
Shoulder plane?
Set of good chisels (Bevels and mortise)
Sharpening kit.

I cannot decide between the bandsaw and tablesaw (don't really have room (or budget) for both). I am leaning towards a bandsaw because it takes up less workshop space, is more versatile and I already have a circular saw - plus it scares me less!. However I can be talked round.

I've read many of your comments about bandsaws at the £300-500 mark and if I had to buy tomorrow I think I'd go for the Record BS300 although the engineer in me would prefer bearing blade guides as I think they must guide the blade more surely.

Given the budget I can't afford 3 or 4 LN, LV or Clifton planes so I would propose to get the LV block plane and get the rest as reconditioned Stanleys from Ray Iles - good idea?

Chisels I have no real idea but I thought the Kirschen 1101s from Axminster looked good value and somebody here liked them I think?

Only remaining question is - do you think I need a thicknesser? (I was planning to do edge joining on the router table)

You lot seem to be grand at spending other folks money :wink: so any comments or suggestions are very gratefully received.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Adam]

Hello all,

This is my first post here but I have been lurking for a couple of weeks and searching your archives.

Hello! Searching the archives before a question? An excellent start then!

I need some help setting up my workshop which is a little small as it is only a 10'x8' shed.

Me too!

Chisels I have no real idea but I thought the Kirschen 1101s from Axminster looked good value and somebody here liked them I think?

I do, I sharpened mine on the Tormek and they pare through oak end grain like its butter. I certainly haven't had cause to fault them at all.

You lot seem to be grand at spending other folks money :wink: so any comments or suggestions are very gratefully received.
Thanks, Andy.

Us? We would never suggest blowing all that cash on tools :^o

 

[Anonymous]

Buying anything from Ray Iles is a great idea! Keep it in the family!! (For those who don't know, Ray is my first wife's cousin, Ashley was her uncle.)

I would go for a tablesaw over a bandsaw to start as it's far easier to get straight cuts first time. You can also add sanding disks to it if you like (I have one with different paper each side) and if you must go crazy you can get cutters and all sorts of other dangerous accesories! I lived with my tablesaw for 12 years before I needed a bandsaw to cut a circular tabletop - but even then you can buy a special blade to cut reasonable circles on the tablesaw anyway.

 

[jasonB]

Your router & table should cover the joint(s) aspect of the doors, the circ saw will take care of the panels which leaves the styles & rails.

If you bought PAR boards these could be ripped to width on a table saw and just need one or two passes with a hand plane to finish the cut edge. They could also be cut square & to length on a TS with a mitre guide or sliding carrage.

Something like the scheppach 2010 would come within budget and the other accesories can be added later, this would leave you with enough for a block & bench plane.

Jason

 

[PowerTool]

I have a table saw and a bandsaw (amongst other toys..) and the table saw is immensely more useful!
The bandsaw does get used on smaller stuff,but generally not on anything I couldn't do with the JetCut handsaw (but yes,it's easier :roll: )

And a £600 budget from SWMBO is a very good start - hope you have many hours of pleasure out of whatever you decide to spend it on

Andrew

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys - Seems like perhaps a tablesaw is the the best way to go - at least to start with.

The other thing I am not too sure about is if I will make use of the shoulder plane, but perhaps I'll post separately about that in the handtools section.

Adam - thanks on two counts.. 1) that's my chisel decision made 2) it is reassuring to know that it can be done in a small workshop - so to speak!

Cheers,
Andy.

 

[Anonymous]

Chisels I have no real idea but I thought the Kirschen 1101s from Axminster looked good value and somebody here liked them I think?


Andy.

that'll probably be me if you were searching the archives -and i still like them a lot!!!

 

[Alf]

Ah, the perennial tablesaw/bandsaw debate. Welcome to the forum, Andy; as you've obviously been taking advantage of the archives (well done) I imagine you're well aware where my preference lies. For my money, a bandsaw is considerably more able to fill the role of your flexible friend; I'm still wondering how Andrew (Powertool) cuts curves with a Stanley JetCut, but I digress... Of course it does depend on getting one of reasonable size. As soon as you start comparing a small benchtop model with a tablesaw, the bandsaw is going to come off worse. But with a 14" b/s or larger, especially in the smaller workshop, the benefits of the bandsaw far outweigh the space-hungry tablesaw, IMO. Safer, narrower kerf wasting less wood, ability to resaw your own stock, curves etc. The circular saw can handle all the tablesaw tasks, especially if you don't mind making yourself a couple of simple jigs. If I read you right you're intending to blend in quite a bit of hand tool work into your making? Well it might be worth mentioning the nickname the bandsaw has earned from many a handtool fiend; neanderbuddy. :wink:

As far as the shoulder plane goes, I reckon having one plane of some sort that can plane right into a corner is extremely handy, especially when you're starting out. Folks will say you can use a chisel for the same purpose, but how many novices are able to accurately guide their chisel to that degree of accuracy? Trouble is they're pricey. :? One possibility is to portmanteau the block plane in as well and go for a rebate block plane. Yes, still pricey, but at twofer one maybe worth considering. Just a thought.

Oh, and I should stay your hand over the mortise chisels. Unless you're a masochist you'll probably be using the router to do the mortising and the bevel edged Kirschens should be quite capable of squaring them up.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Gill]

I'm changing my position in the bandsaw/tablesaw debate . But just for you, Andy .

In the past, I've always advocated the bandsaw over the tablesaw for the very reasons Alf gives. However, if you're just going to be making cupboards and suchlike, you won't need the flexibility of being able to resaw and cut curves that a bandsaw offers. In this instance I think a tablesaw would be more suitable for your needs.

I hope you're aware that a tablesaw will take up a lot of floorspace in your workshop. It might be worth considering a Festool guide system instead, but I don't know much about these - it would be worth seaching the forum for more information.

Gill

 

[Alf]

Traitor... :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[llangatwgnedd]

Traitor...

Cheers, Alf

Count me as one also. :lol:

Fed up of buying new blades to cut a straight line as new ones don't take long to dull and we all know what a dull blade does best .
Ordering a 804 Tuesday but still keep bandsaw for cutting non straight lines :?

Anyway, welcome to the forum Andy

 

[Alf]

I'm gonna have to post on a different forum at this rate; I feel all alone... 8-[

 

[llangatwgnedd]

I'm gonna have to post on a different forum at this rate; I feel all alone...

don't you dare do that.

Just a bandsaw in my opinion is useless at ripping and I am sold on a dado cutting machine :twisted: , erm, I mean a 804. :wink:

 

[Alf]

Just a bandsaw in my opinion is useless at ripping <snip>

:-s

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm.....

Kitchen cupboards and bookcases are certainly 1st on the list but I do have some ideas for - shall we say "curvy" furniture. Plus as I build loudspeakers occasionally the ability to cut my own veneers is appealing too - It is just that it isn't a priority at the moment.

Alf - Tell me more about 14" bandsaws. Can you get a cut which is parallel to the fence and requires no further finishing? If not, how much extra planing work is needed? How quickly do the blades wear out and how much are these Dure-edge (is that right?) blades that get a lot of mention here?

All in all - given that I doubt I have room for both a 14" bandsaw and the tablesaw I'm quite keen to make the bandsaw work because of the versatility it offers.

Adam - do you have both bandsaw and tablesaw in your workshop - if so how do you get on space wise?

Thanks again for all your help - this is certainly a very friendly forum!
Andy

 

[Noel]

Andy, I have a TS and a BS and couldn't do without either BUT if I had to choose on account of space I'd go for a BS. Although I'm a big TS fan and use it alot a BS can cater for most cuts within the limits of the throat depth. Anything larger can be cut on a SCMS or with a C/Saw and guide. If I was in this situation my choice of new BS would need to a good one and similar in price and quality to a good TS

Noel

 

[jasonB]

Hmmm.....


Can you get a cut which is parallel to the fence and requires no further finishing? If not, how much extra planing work is needed? How quickly do the blades wear out and how much are these Dure-edge (is that right?) blades that get a lot of mention here? Thanks again for all your help - this is certainly a very friendly forum!
Andy

Unless you have a good quality BS you will not get a decent edge, even with a good saw the edge will still need quite a bit of work with handplanes to get an acceptable finish. Thats why I suggested a TS as you have no plane/thicknesser it would be better to buy any solid timber already planed, if you need to rip it to width the TS will give a finish that will just need one pass of a handplane to get a suitable finish.

The TS will also allow you to get accurate cross & mitre cuts which would otherwise need a lot of work & practice to get the same results by hand (also you do not have a chop or SCMS). I have a TS, radial arm saw and mitre saw in my workshop but use the TS for 99% of cross & mitre cuts.

Curved work you could probably manage with a jig saw for a while, using a 6mm MDF template and flush cutting bit in your router to trim to a smooth curve as the jiggy will wander a bit.

Waste wise a thin kerf blade in the TS will waste no more wood than a BS once you take into account the extra cleaning up required. The BS does have the advantage of being able to cut deeper though you will need a large powerfull one to cut veneer from 6" maple :wink:

Duredge blades are priced according to length so will depend on the size of saw say £5-10 each, keep a good wide one for veneer cutting only and a slightly finer one will do most other work, I keep a 6TPI 1/4 blade in mine which will give a good straight line but still do tight curves without changing blades. Wear will depend on what you are cutting.



Jason

 

[Anonymous]

Unless you have a good quality BS you will not get a decent edge

If I was in this situation my choice of new BS would need to a good one and similar in price and quality to a good TS

Noel, Jason, Alf et all - I am much closer to understanding the price vs performance trade off I think. Bandsaw blades aren't as dear as I expected so my remaining question is - If you HAD to pick a bandsaw to replace both your current bandsaw and your tablesaw which make and model would YOU consider.

It may be that my budget just can't stretch to a sufficiently good BS and I will end up with a £300-£400 TS but I'd really like to exhaust this line of enquiry first!

Thanks again,
Andy.

 

[jasonB]

If I had to replace my BS even if I was still keeping my TS then I would be looking for something with at least a 10" depth of cut so that would be something like a Starite, Jet or large Schepach all around £1000+

But I would rather do without a bandsaw and keep a tablesaw anyday, I did without a BS for several years when I started out.

In fact you could get the Schepack TS2010 and the same BS as mine for just over your £600 budget. I have the earlier version of this

Jason

 

[Alf]

Hmm, tricky question. I find buying woodworking machinery very like buying a new computer; I steep myself in all the info available for the duration of the decision making - and then promptly forget it all once I've got the new toy. However, if I was looking now with limited budget, I'd be looking for further info on the floor-standing Perform currently on offer. Apparently excellent capacity, cast iron table and good price, so I'd be looking about for reviews on it for sure. Possibly too good to be true? There's probably a Record model skulling about too, but I'm not a fan of Record I'm afraid.

Cheers, Alf