Workbench - Vise design

[seanybaby]

One of my next projects is going to be a workbench. I have been reading everything i can get my hands on including all the stuff on here. I have also gone through 'The Workbench Book' by Scott Landis.

My first idea was to build a proper traditional workbench with tail vise. Like the Klausz bench, but change the front vise to a record 53. However the more and read and researched, it became apparent it's better to have a tail vise like Fortune/Nelson which doesn't have the 'L' shaped tail vise.

So i have concluded i need something like Lord Nibbo's excellent bench.

Now the big question running round my head, is do i really need a tail vise like that? Why not just slap another quick release record on the end to act as a tail vise?

What are the advantages / disadvantages to doing this?

The only real difference i can see is, it's just not that traditional.

 

[mr]

I have a twin screw rear vise attached to the end of my bench and it has only really been used since I managed to break my shoulder vise. Hopefully I'll get that fixed this weekend. traditional "sliding block" type of rear vise seems most useful as a mechanism to pinch workpieces against a bench dog for planing etc. I've heard is said that benches without an end vise don't see much planing which is nonsense I think. I plane I (lots) into a planing stop instead of pinching the workpiece so this mechanism isn't much use to me. My shoulder vise on the other hand gets used for everything. No screw to get in the way , easy to mount other devices into, including a record engineers vise mounted on a ply block with a cleat. If I was building it again or when I build the next one it will definitely have a shoulder vise on the front face and may not have an end vise at all. Not sure that will help you much but praps its a different way of looking at it.
Cheers Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Sean,

I have a Record 52D fitted as a tail vice and it works well

However, the advantage of the Nelson/Fortune one is that you can arrange it so that the dogs are closer to the front edge of the bench, which is useful if you want to use planes and other tools with a fence. With the Record style vice you could always put a dog in the wooden jaw facing to get the same effect, but you then tend to get some racking as the dog is not in line with the vice screw.

Have a look at this thread from Jake Darvall about his "fish scaler" device. A bit crude but a brilliant idea http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... hp?t=38354 If I were to build another bench, I'd try to incorporate his idea. You can never have enough work-holding devices in my view :wink:

Hope this helps

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Edit. The other idea worth considering is to arrange things so that you can fit a holdfast in the leg of the bench to support the other end of long work pieces held in the front vice. I think Lord Nibbo did this on his bench. MarcW did it on his bench as well - see here (scroll down a bit) http://woodnotes-marc.blogspot.com/2007 ... chive.html

 

[woodbloke]

One or two interesting features of the bench I built a few years ago:

This bench uses Mr C's idea of a removable bench well at the back which is very useful for cramping stuff (shooting board say) to the bench top from the rear. In addition you can see a thick top rail draw bolted into the frame, not normally done on any bench that I've seen before but it is a 'belt and braces' way to ensure that the bench doesn't rack in use. The vice is a traditional 'L' shaped vice with a row of dogs down the front, top and legs are all 75mm beech, double rail at the back for storing odds and ends, traditionally for saws but I don't use it like that. Hope of some help - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think that removable well is a great idea, Rob - I've often wished I had it on my bench which, like yours, is against a wall so prevents me clamping stuff from the back

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Pekka Huhta]

Brilliant! The removable well is so tempting that I will probably take it out from my bench anyway. That would solve a bunch of problems.

Is there some additional info in Mr. C'd literature or videos, I'd love to read the details before I start modifying my bench?

The best I've come this far has been a block on the wall and a wedge I tap in, but that would give all the possibilities of clamps to add in.

BTW: does a traditional holdfast flex, or is it just a matter of wedging it on the hole? Never seen one, as they don't exist around here but it would be tempting to forge a few just to try.

Pekka

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Pekka,

Have a look at the video on this link from Chris Schwarz - it shows a bench using the traditional style of forged holdfast. It looks as though they do flex a little http://popularwoodworking.com/video/?showid=64822

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Pekka,

Some ideas, explainations, examples of use and a couple of versions from page 8 of my first book.

Wonderful exploded diagrams by Ian Hall, but no actual measurents.

David

 

[newt]

Paul is that the number 6 Clifton that I had my mitts on recently?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul is that the number 6 Clifton that I had my mitts on recently?

You mean this one

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[seanybaby]

Cheers guys.

That removable tray looks a good idea. Is the whole tray removable? Is it made in two parts? So you can just remove the bit you want?

I think I'm going to go with the quick release record for my tail vise. It will be a lot easier to design my bench with it. Plus cheaper as i already have the vise.

One more Q, Does using these holdfasts damage dog holes over time?

Dog holes, 1 row or 2?

 

[Paul Chapman]

One more Q, Does using these holdfasts damage dog holes over time?

Dog holes, 1 row or 2?

Hi Sean,

There are various types of holdfast. The Record type uses a metal collar fitted to the bench

You can use it without the collar but I've not done so. I can't really say whether it would damage the hole in the bench if it were used without the collar.

Veritas have recently brought out this one, which I also have

It fits in the same size hole as their bench dogs. These are the component parts

Tightening the brass knob at the top of the post causes the piece at the bottom to slide and it locks into the hole. You then clamp the workpiece

It's doubtful that this type would cause any wear to the hole. I use it in my bench, the top of which is made from MDF and there's been no wear to the holes.

Veritas also do this one but I've not used it, so can't comment on it http://www.brimarc.com/home.php3?page=p ... c=G%201401

I have four rows of dog holes on my bench.

Hope this helps

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Escudo]

Hello Sean,

I wonder have you seen this very interesting and versatile bench. I saved the link from a post on the forum from sometime back.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=28530

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers, Esc.

 

[seanybaby]

Cheers Escudo, seen that vid recently, on some helpful UK woodwork forum :lol:

Paul - 4 rows! Is that 2 rows each for 2 vises? ie. 2 length ways, 2 width ways? I was thinking of doing this.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul - 4 rows! Is that 2 rows each for 2 vises? ie. 2 length ways, 2 width ways? I was thinking of doing this.

The dog holes are arranged like this

One of the rows lines up with the dog on the end vice and, similarly, one row lines up with the dog on the front vice.

When spacing the holes, make sure that the spaces are slightly less than the opening of the vice. Also, if you plan on using the Veritas Wonder dogs or pups, you might need to take into accound the length of the thread on these when spacing the holes.

Having four rows makes it helpful when you want to clamp the workpiece on the sides as well as the ends, like this

In this case I was putting pressure on the side of the workpiece with the fence of the biscuit jointer when cutting the slots. Clamping on the side as well as the end makes sure the piece won't move at all.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[seanybaby]

Many thanks Paul for your input

It's given me many things to think about :shock:

Cheers :wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Sean, I found a picture showing a view of the front vice and the position of the dog holes in relation to it

Cheers :wink:

Paul