Workbench Electrics - How would this be achieved?
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Cabinetman
Established Member
Unless I have misunderstood your question it is probably an extension lead which is plugged in when needed.
He has probably replaced the end with a double socket.
I usually find it best to take the lead up to the ceiling to prevent a tripping hazard, or it’s possible that it’s plugged into a floor mounted socket but I think that’s doubtful.
Ian
He has probably replaced the end with a double socket.
I usually find it best to take the lead up to the ceiling to prevent a tripping hazard, or it’s possible that it’s plugged into a floor mounted socket but I think that’s doubtful.
Ian
That was my guess too, so I suppose my question should be more is this a safe setup and would there be restrictions on what could be powered using sockets this way?
Thanks
Sean
Done correctly, it will be as safe as any other installation. The most obvious thing that requires consideration is strain relief on the cable.
Within reason, there should be little restriction. Any restriction there is will be as a result of the part you do not see in the photo.
In other words, the limits will be set by the cable size that runs from those sockets to the main workshop wall, the plug which is fitted to that cable, the receptacle into which the plug is inserted and the fixed wiring and protective device which supplies power to the receptacle.
The analogy above to an extension lead is a very good one.
A length of 0.75mm^2 orange cable and a two pin mower plug and socket would be inadvisable.
The bench shown looks to have ordinary domestic sockets fitted into a wooden panel.
I would not.
I'd go to screwfix or toolstation and buy an all metal twin outlet with a metal back box. Stronger and all enclosed. Also much cheaper.
Use a compression cable gland (m20 size) to secure the cable where it enters the metal back box. That will grip the flex, keep the dust out and protect the flex from the edges of the metal box.
Go to your local CEF and buy this robust cable in either 1.5mm or 2.5mm. As long as you are keeping the lead shortish (say 5 metres or less) you shouldn't have to worry about "voltage drop" in the cable.
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...ber-flexible-cable-cut-length-sold-by-the-mtr
The ratings of these rubber cables are here
https://www.elandcables.com/media/38331/h07rn-f-en-50525-2-21-flexible-rubber-cable.pdf
You can use 1.5mm size wired into a 13A 3 pin plug and be safe. The fuse will blow before anything else if you overload the sockets.
You can use 2.5mm size wired into a 16A blue industrial plug fed from a matching 16A outlet with a 16A breaker and you'll have a bit more current available.
2.5mm cable it too thick to wire into a 13A 3 pin plug.
A twin 13A socket is rated 13A for one outlet, 20A max between the two. You won't get 20A at your bench.
As @ChaiLatte says it is the extension cable plug, and the fixed wiring that feeds the extension cable that dictates how much power you can have at the bench. You just need to make sure the flex is big enough to carry everything that the plug will deliver into it.
If you are safe and confident wiring up a plug and a socket, this is a diy project. If you aren't, then seek help, don't guess.
I would not.
I'd go to screwfix or toolstation and buy an all metal twin outlet with a metal back box. Stronger and all enclosed. Also much cheaper.
Use a compression cable gland (m20 size) to secure the cable where it enters the metal back box. That will grip the flex, keep the dust out and protect the flex from the edges of the metal box.
Go to your local CEF and buy this robust cable in either 1.5mm or 2.5mm. As long as you are keeping the lead shortish (say 5 metres or less) you shouldn't have to worry about "voltage drop" in the cable.
https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/pro...ber-flexible-cable-cut-length-sold-by-the-mtr
The ratings of these rubber cables are here
https://www.elandcables.com/media/38331/h07rn-f-en-50525-2-21-flexible-rubber-cable.pdf
You can use 1.5mm size wired into a 13A 3 pin plug and be safe. The fuse will blow before anything else if you overload the sockets.
You can use 2.5mm size wired into a 16A blue industrial plug fed from a matching 16A outlet with a 16A breaker and you'll have a bit more current available.
2.5mm cable it too thick to wire into a 13A 3 pin plug.
A twin 13A socket is rated 13A for one outlet, 20A max between the two. You won't get 20A at your bench.
As @ChaiLatte says it is the extension cable plug, and the fixed wiring that feeds the extension cable that dictates how much power you can have at the bench. You just need to make sure the flex is big enough to carry everything that the plug will deliver into it.
If you are safe and confident wiring up a plug and a socket, this is a diy project. If you aren't, then seek help, don't guess.
SammyQ
Established Member
Sideways, I normally bow to your superior electrical knowledge, unquestioningly. But this (paraphrased) comment had my eyebrows cuddling up to the two remaining patches of hair I have just above my forehead.
1. I regularly use 1500W-2500W 'hand' power tools: to wit, a circular saw and a big, butch Makita router. Likewise a DeWalt 625e. There is no way with God in her heaven* I would feel happy swinging these beasts around on a 1.5mm² cable. I would be making toast on the cables for 'Levenses?
2. I've made up extension leads and umpteen heavy duty tool leads with 2.5mm² 'flex'; sometimes the black 'rubberoid' covered one, sometimes the nice electric blue 'camping version'. On no occasion did I have trouble terminating into a standard 13A plug.
Please educate me. Am I just a well-intentioned, but uninformed, ejit? Am I talking through my hat? Or, am I right to be cautious where current and conductor capacity are concerned?
* Only a female Diety would have had the sardonic humour to create Man...
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I've got similar on my lathe stand. Double socket on an extension lead - out of the way underneath and behind. One has the motor plugged in, the other free.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
2500w means 10 amps in theory so would be OK except for surge currents which could blow the fuse, in which case you'd have to go up to 16amp circuit and blue sockets etc
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
A face up socket is an ideal candidate for sawdust accumulation.
Using an exterior socket with a cover when no plug inserted may be sensible - will provide some protection against dust and spills. Or mount at the side vertically.
Having just moved and rejigging electrics I chose to install a ceiling socket above the bench to avoid trailing cables!
Using an exterior socket with a cover when no plug inserted may be sensible - will provide some protection against dust and spills. Or mount at the side vertically.
Having just moved and rejigging electrics I chose to install a ceiling socket above the bench to avoid trailing cables!
Interesting one @SammyQ
I have bullied 2.5mm 3 core cables into 13A plugs before now myself. I always found it a tight squeeze and needed to turn over the cord grip strap, etc to squeeze it in.
It was a more knowledgeable member on this forum that pointed out that if you read the British Standard that governs the 13A three pin plug, that standard specifies that the plug must be able to accept cables up to 1.5mm square cross section area.
The standard for the plug doesn't require them to be designed or made to accept 2.5mm flex.
I doubted as you are doing here, but the gentleman was absolutely correct when I downloaded and read the standard. Live and learn ....
There's no electrical reason why not to use a thicker flex, it is mechanically stronger and will have less heating and voltage drop, but it is a squeeze to wire it into some 13A plugs and that isn't the fault of the plug manufacturer.
1.5mm HO7 RNF flex is rated 16A.
That link I gave to the Eland cables spec sheet even gives tensile strength for their cables.
SammyQ
Established Member
Thank you Sideways, most informative.
Colour me stunned...all those years of rhyming off "2.5 for power, 1.5 for lights" as I rewired, yada, yada...I think I may have transferred expectations for cables to those for flex, when in fact, flex regulations are more ...flexible?
Mind you, your points re durability, voltage drop etc make me all the more convinced to wrassle big, thick iggernunt flex into 13A plugses - I got strong fingers.! Thanks again.
Colour me stunned...all those years of rhyming off "2.5 for power, 1.5 for lights" as I rewired, yada, yada...I think I may have transferred expectations for cables to those for flex, when in fact, flex regulations are more ...flexible?
Mind you, your points re durability, voltage drop etc make me all the more convinced to wrassle big, thick iggernunt flex into 13A plugses - I got strong fingers.! Thanks again.
Thank you all for your thoughts
Thank you for the detailed response. I am confident in simple wiring, so have no issues there, but find it is always good to get input from others. I hadn’t considered potential dust issues and was purely focused on convenience and looks after seeing the image above
A sturdy outdoor socket with cover may be more suited to the job. I am only researching at the moment, so plenty of time to plan things out
Sean
Thank you for the detailed response. I am confident in simple wiring, so have no issues there, but find it is always good to get input from others. I hadn’t considered potential dust issues and was purely focused on convenience and looks after seeing the image above
A sturdy outdoor socket with cover may be more suited to the job. I am only researching at the moment, so plenty of time to plan things out
Sean
Sachakins
The most wasted of days is one without woodwork
Here's a neat solution
Aluminium Recessed Power Socket USB C, Ohuo Desk Power Socket Table Pop up Power Strip 2 Outlets with 2 USB, 1,8M Extension Cord Amazon.co.uk
Also surface mount style to mount to underside of a desk/work bench etc
Zeshan Under Desk Cable Management Cable Tidy Desk Power with 3 UK Plug 2 USB,Don't Need Cut Hole, Cord Length 59inch https://amzn.eu/d/hFazE7G
Aluminium Recessed Power Socket USB C, Ohuo Desk Power Socket Table Pop up Power Strip 2 Outlets with 2 USB, 1,8M Extension Cord Amazon.co.uk
Also surface mount style to mount to underside of a desk/work bench etc
Zeshan Under Desk Cable Management Cable Tidy Desk Power with 3 UK Plug 2 USB,Don't Need Cut Hole, Cord Length 59inch https://amzn.eu/d/hFazE7G
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I have always used 2.5mm cable on leads for powertools and such, it is just mechanicaly more robust. Using domestic plastic sockets in a workbench is a vunerability that as @Sideways has said is easily solved by using metal clad products. What you do need to bear in mind is that what you have is essentially a workbench extension lead so do not treat the workbench sockets the same as the ones wired on the wall which will be on at least a 20 amp circuit or a 32 amp circuit.
Personally I would not bother with sockets on a workbench and if they were really needed then I would use some form of retractable overhead cable reel but to date never felt like I have needed them.
Personally I would not bother with sockets on a workbench and if they were really needed then I would use some form of retractable overhead cable reel but to date never felt like I have needed them.
Just an observation: with mains-powered wood bothering equipment, it is quite rare that we have to deal with a power cable on its own. Most of the time it is a power cable _and_ extraction hose.
There might be some disbenefit if the cable is going 'up' and the hose is going 'down' or 'across'. Particularly when moving the tool about, if the two items do not originate on the same side, so one is stretching and the other slackening, life might become tedious.
I think you have to consider the logistics/ergonomics of the whole package to find the best solution for you. Just a tiny example: on a TS55, the cable and hose exit on the right of the driver so having a socket on the left would not be great. On a 1/2" hand held router, there will be an optimal side for the cable to lie.
Lons
Established Member
Like Sam I always use extensions that use 2.5mm cable and have a number of those, never had an issue wiring into a standard 13amp plug either so I won't be using 1.5mm for power tools.
Rather than fixing sockets, metal or otherwise into the bench just use a standard extension lead and clip the socket end on to the front instead. Most multiple extension sockets have keyhole fixing holes on the back so it's pretty simple. Decent quality ones are durable enough but use an individually switched type if you can.
Rather than fixing sockets, metal or otherwise into the bench just use a standard extension lead and clip the socket end on to the front instead. Most multiple extension sockets have keyhole fixing holes on the back so it's pretty simple. Decent quality ones are durable enough but use an individually switched type if you can.
RogerS
Established Member
Note to self : "Please pass me the extension flex".
I'm lazy about the terms and it could be confusing.
Roger's right
Don't put "cable" in a 3 pin plug.
I'm lazy about the terms and it could be confusing.
Roger's right
Don't put "cable" in a 3 pin plug.
SammyQ
Established Member
"It's the terminology, Sam."
Totally, Roger. My point above was that I had transposed requirements for cable onto flex. The 13A plug stuff was a complete surprise.
Totally, Roger. My point above was that I had transposed requirements for cable onto flex. The 13A plug stuff was a complete surprise.
Lons
Established Member
My bad terminology as well,
Of course it's not sensible to put cable into a 3 pin plug andI also meant flex. It doesn't change what I said though, I don't have an issue fixing 2.5mm FLEX into a 3pin 13amp plug and have several examples including a couple of long ex caravan hook up extensions to get power occasionally down to the field which can be 50m so power loss can be a factor. I'd add that I usually solder the wire ends first and use decent quality plugs.
Of course it's not sensible to put cable into a 3 pin plug andI also meant flex. It doesn't change what I said though, I don't have an issue fixing 2.5mm FLEX into a 3pin 13amp plug and have several examples including a couple of long ex caravan hook up extensions to get power occasionally down to the field which can be 50m so power loss can be a factor. I'd add that I usually solder the wire ends first and use decent quality plugs.
