Woodworking without a table saw

[dance]

Hello and help(!)

I think I might have come as far as I can without a table saw. I have built some outside chairs and table and an indoor shelving unit. I am now trying to go to the next level with my woodworking and am coming up against major problems trying to work without a table saw.

As far as tools go I have a circ saw, jigsaw, Leigh D4R, hand saw, drills, driver, flush plane etc.

I would like to put to use my D4R to make small boxes etc but find that without a table saw, all the cuts I make with my circ saw (even when I cut against a makeshift fence) are too inaccurate, not square, and suffer from tear out.

How can I make do without a table saw? I've seen and considered the eurekazone offering but it looks more expensive than a second hand table saw on eBay and possibly a little more fiddly to use. I'd rather this thread didn't focus on the EZ vs Table saw debate and focussed more on how I can do woodworking without a table saw? Should I, for example, ask my local timber yard to cut all my pieces to size for me? Seems a sorry solution.

I don't have a shop and have only a large under stairs cupboard to store all my tools. I have a small yard but it's far from ideal.

Thanks!!

 

[LuptonM]

Why don't u use a hand saw to rough cut the timber (since its only little pieces) and a hand plane and shooting board to plane it to your exact dimensions

 

[woodbloke]

Some would argue that you don't actually need a tablesaur...personally I think you do, but if fundage and space is restricted, then a small bandsaw (plenty to see at Axminster) might be the way forward? - Rob

 

[Chems]

Make up your own guide rail and table to use it on. Lots of people use the Festool system with out using a table saw because they swear by the guide rail.

Is budget and object or just space? Or Both?

 

[9fingers]

Welcome to the forum.

If I were in your position, I would consider designing a jig on a flat board with fixed fences at right angles and a free fence that you clamp as needed and use your router to trim rough cut boards to final size and true right angles.

Bob

 

[Lardman]

I was in the same position a few years back, no shop and unable to get a good enough cut. I made the mistake of buying a budget 10inch Rexon table saw. Its been a complete waste of money. I don't know what other users think but without a good, fixed table in a shop theres very little chance of you seeing a vast improvement in your cut quality.

And trust me carrying a saw about,setting everything up, cutting, clearing up and putting the saw away in no fun at all.

Not sure what your TY is like, but mine have no concept of square, parallel or accurate cuts, but its worth asking. Personally Id go with LuptonM's suggestion, rough cut by hand and then shoot the boards.

 

[cerdeira]

Unless you're in the hand tool camp, it's difficult to be proficient in woodworking without either a tablesaw or a bandsaw.
You can always get all your wood precut to size, but you'll eventually need, as your projects and ambitions grow, to cut stuff to your own specifications.

If you're not willing to use a tablesaw unguarded (which will undoubtedly increase both its potential and injury risk) then get yourself a small bandsaw.

Besides the possibility of cutting curved shapes it also alows you to cut tenons and resaw wood. With a bandsaw and a hand plane you can prepare most of the pieces needed for a project.

 

[yetloh]

I feel I have cpme a long way having been making furniture fro nearly 15 years but have never felt I needed a table saw. Unless you are doing it commercially you should be able to manage perfectly well with a decent bandsaw. These are much safer and take up a lot less space than a table saw. If you are tight for space, a bandsaw and planer thicknesser are the best use of it and will enable you to do almost anything.

Jim

 

[Alf]

Another vote for a shooting board - if you're going to be making small boxes, they demand fine tolerances and being able to sneak up to an exact fit on a shooting board is going to be invaluable however else you solve the initial problem.

Oh, and welcome aboard.

 

[ro]

I'll put in yet another vote for the shooting board. I find that I'm using mine more often than I use my table saw - with a No 5 plane it'll accurately finish the ends of any board at 90 or 45 degrees in less time than the table saw takes to set up!

 

[Paul Chapman]

Another vote for a shooting board

And another

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

Saw board idea is better then it looks.
http://www.benchnotes.com/Skillsaw%20Gu ... de_boa.htm
In fact very accurate. You just put it up to your marks and that's where it cuts (or routs). You can make long ones for ripping, or short ones for cross-cutting.

 

[ondablade]

I'd agree that you could get quite a long way using a mix of low cost powered aids:

1. Circular saw with guide rail, whether home made or bought. Investigate the commercial ones first to understand how they work. The Festool system delivers cut quality the equal of most table saws - it seems to be the result of a mix of the rail, a good blade (lots of those sold for handsaws are junk), a true running saw and a hold down strip right at the cutting edge of the fence that stops splintering. Probably all capable of incorporation into a DIY model.

2. Selection of clamp-able fixtures and a straight sided and square working table in ply or MDF as required, especially right angle fixtures in all three axes.

3. Some clamps.

4. Add a small plunge router to be mounted under a board to make a simple router table, or used free hand - for machining capability.

Handtools open up a whole new space in that you would need some sharpening kit plus user and sharpening skills, but as Alf says a shooting board would open up some real precision possibilities.

One place to start might be to get your hands on a detailed Festool brochure, and to swot up the means by which they built a whole joinery system off their Multifunction MFT 3 table using add-ons. Here's a start: http://www.festool.co.uk/Products/Pages ... FT-3-MFT-3

Some lateral thinking should find ways to do quite a lot of it by DIY means and shop hardware and materials.

I'd agree too that it's a frustrating false economy to buy cheap stuff. Better to save up for carefully chosen decent stuff that will form part of an ongoing capability. Better still buy used examples.

Getting to an accurate right angle/square is an important starting point. The best way i know to do it is to lay out a large size say 30in/40in/50in triangle (or other 3/4/5 triangle as suits - but the bigger the more accurate) on a sheet of play or MDF. Do this using a strip of wood with drilled holes for nails placed accurately at the required dimensions, and use it like a compass to accurately place the corners of your 3/4/5 triangle. Keep this for reference, use it to mark others when you need to cut.

Here's a project suggestion - draw up plans and how to instructions for a DIY joinery system like the above, and sell these to people starting on a low budget. It'd need proving and development, one good way of doing this might be for a more experienced person to work with somebody just starting out like Dance...

 

[woodbloke]

Another vote for a shooting board

And another

Cheers :wink:

Paul

...+1, provided the wood is of a managable size. If it's too big then a tablesaur with sliding table is better - Rob

 

[AndyT]

Ondablade's comments about diy guide rail systems reminds me that we used to see a lot of posts here by a guy called Niki. Sadly he passed away, but his posts are still available, and they are a marvellous monument to his ingenuity. Almost everything he did was done with cheap and easily available materials (he used to say that a lot of good stuff was just not available in Poland).

Here's a link to his diy guide for a circular saw, made from offcuts of laminate flooring (straight, thin, free!) which exemplifies his approach. Well worth reading through his old posts if you want ideas on how to make stuff without a professional workshop full of machinery.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post427221.html?highlight=#427221

 

[Chems]

And another design here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/guid ... 28797.html
And a budget MFT here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/budg ... 45022.html

 

[Steve Maskery]

Buying either a tablesaw or a bandsaw certainly does give you much more scope to prepare your own timber, but bear in mind that a cheap tablesaw will almost certainly give you disappointing results. Either go for a good-quality s/h one, or consider a medium-sized bandsaw, again, spending your money s/h will get you a better machine than the same cost new. Bandsaws take more care in setting up, but are in many ways more versatile.

Consider also a small planer/thicknesser. I have a Kity. They are no longer made, but crop up occasionally on ebay and are a good compromise between size and cost, and there are other similar-sized machines about.

Don't get me wrong, I love my tablesaw, it's accurate and built like a tank, but the more I use my bandsaw, the less I use my tablesaw.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ondablade]

Nice job on the MFT Chems. Do you think would those Festool clamps be a good bet for use on a normal workbench with 3/4 in dog holes?

Are they strong/rigid?