Wooden Archway in a wall

[emlclcy]

I'm going to be cutting an archway inside the house, not an arch but it will go up then 45 then horizontal then 45 then down and want to edge the cut with 4" x 1" timber, mitred at the corners. Question is, how best to secure the wood to the breezblock without showing any fasteners?
thanks
carl hampshire

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I can't think of an easy way to secure the wood without fixing through the face one way or another. Screwing through the wood into rawlpugs (plastic plugs) is the obvious way, but that leaves hiding the screw head which could be sunk into the wood by counterboring and pelleting the counterbore. This would be okay, probably, for painting, but less successful if you want a clear finish.

The best I can think of is to fasten a couple of battens lengthways parallel with the long direction of the opening, with each batten following close to the wall's front and back face, then nailing through the face of your timber lining into these battens using either oval or lost head nails, then fill the holes and finish. You'd also need a return at each edge of the lining to hide the battens - this is similar to making traditional ladder like grounds for the verticals of door linings or casing typically seen for casings for internal doors in old thick walled houses going backwards from about the Victorian or Edwardian period.

An alternative to battens might be to bore a series of holes near each edge of the opening, perhaps something like 25 mm diameter and to drive in wooden plugs, or to clear mortar out between blocks so that you can drive wooden pallets into the spaces created. Again you'd nail your lining and fill as before.

I can't say I'd really fancy tackling either of the last two methods (wooden plugs or pallets), and I'd look towards an approach based on what I described in paragraph two for a solution. Slainte.

 

[emlclcy]

i was thinking of screws into the back side of the frame into hole in the brickwork then once you get a nice fit, adhesive in the holes. someone suggested clamp the frame in place then use gripfil!
maybe thats the easy solution?
when a bulb blows in my place i re wire the house ....
carl

 

[Silfi]

emicicy - Not sure what you want to do --- are the boards to be on the face of the wall or to be attached to cover the breeze blocks where you cut the arch? ie are the mitres across the 4" size of the board or the 1".
It should be possible to screw metal brackets to the rear of the boards and then screw to breeze blocks. If blocks are plastered then brackets can be hidden.

 

[emlclcy]

once the wall has been cut the edges of the breeze blocks are covered with a 4" wide plank so the mitres are on the 1" edge. like the idea of metal brackets as the plaster will have to be 'made good' so will cover them.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Can you do a sketch and take a picture of the sketch to show us?

 

[deema]

Sounds like your making architrave, in which case just stick it on with something like no nails. Heal and toe nail the mitres on the side, or loose tennon them if you don’t want the nails so that you have a complete arch before sticking it in place. Clamps around the opening to hold it in place whilst the glue sets. How are you going to line the archway?

The old method was to frame the inside of the arch with say 2x1, making the opening larger to allow for the frame. The architrave and lining would then be secured to the frame. Architraves from the frame inside so not showing and the lining secret nailed if no door was being fitted.

 

[Cabinetman]

I feel confident I know what you’re trying to do and as above you could successfully pink stuff the inch by 4 to the breeze blocks after vacuuming the dust off them, another way you could do it is to glue and cramp the architrave to the sides of the inch x 4 to form an open sided box and then pink stuff the whole lot onto the wall, it’s amazingly strong. (and I never thought I would be advocating it like this ha ha )
What Richard was saying about pelleting or plugs as I call them can be almost impossible to detect if you really spend some time getting the grain the same and obviously have the grain going in the right direction. Ian

 

[emlclcy]

this is what i'm trying to do, sorry about the rubbish drawing! so there will be no door

 

[Spectric]

I would not butt the ends together, make the top cross piece as long as possible with square ends, then the next two side pieces are cut to meet the face of the top piece and the last two side pieces meet the face of the last two if that all makes sense. Then fit the top angled sides to the top before fitting so no visible fixings and biscuit the last two into the angled ones and they will wedge in. Secure with Sikaflex.

 

[Felix]

this is what i'm trying to do, sorry about the rubbish drawing! so there will be no door

What I have seen in one of my books is to cut key hole slots in the back of the timber - put some screws in the wall (I would use at least No. 10s) and make keyhole slots in your timber corresponding to the screw positions. You can adjust the fit by tightening/loosening the screws. This does require a certain amount of accuracy - and maybe a few test runs . Use a bit of gripfill or similar (once you're happy with the fit) for some added strength. This way you won't be relying on adhesive alone.......
Cheers
Dean

 

[emlclcy]

hi Roy, could you sketch that please?
regards
carl

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I'm going to be cutting an archway inside the house, not an arch but it will go up then 45 then horizontal then 45 then down and want to edge the cut with 4" x 1" timber, mitred at the corners. Question is, how best to secure the wood to the breezblock without showing any fasteners?
thanks
carl hampshire

What you've drawn looks like a door lining. Some thoughts:
1) The size is not obvious - you might be wise to consult a structural engineer, depending on the width of the opening you may need a suitably specified and installed lintel.
2) A common way to fix such linings for windows and doors is using galvanized steel angle brackets or 'fish plates'.
3) Unless you cover up the junction between your lining board edges and the new plaster with some kind of architrave, you will get ugly cracks appearing as the timber moves independently of the plaster. You also need to allow for the thickness of the plasterwork on both sides, so if your blocks are 100mm allow a board width of say 125mm to allow for about 12mm of plaster and skim on both sides.

I'm intrigued to know what this doorway is for?!

 

[emlclcy]

its a flat roof extension, the opening is to link the kitchen to the living room so the wall is not load bearing. about the height of a door
regards
carl

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I think that you would be very wise to consult a structural engineer. I am just some random person on the internet, but I have made many structural alterations and all have been done under the auspices of both a structural engineer and Building Control (in England). With the greatest of respect - based on the questions you're asking - I don't have confidence that you are not putting your property and/or safety at risk.
When making an opening of this size in blockwork (whether 'load-bearing' or not), I would expect to see some kind of lintel to support the masonry above - regardless of any
timber of the sort you're thinking of. Cheers, W2S
PS I would say that this work would be subject to building control anyway

 

[stevek]

 

[stevek]

Sorry about the pic and no text,,,that bit defeated me,,you could of course get structural engineers and building inspecters and no doubt many others,,,but they dont want to turn out for nothing and once you ask you invite them to say you cant do it,,,if you think its okay just get on with it.
The pic above is a door liner I knocked up a few years back out of old floorboards, from memory I rebated the top and then wedged to sides under it with a bit of gripfill dabed hear and there. Once its trimmed and esp once you start getting paint or paper stuck around it these things get nicely stuck in place.

 

[emlclcy]

cheers steve, that is the sort of thing i have in mind

 

[Jelly]

Sorry about the pic and no text,,,that bit defeated me,,you could of course get structural engineers and building inspecters and no doubt many others,,,but they dont want to turn out for nothing and once you ask you invite them to say you cant do it,,,if you think its okay just get on with it.
The pic above is a door liner I knocked up a few years back out of old floorboards, from memory I rebated the top and then wedged to sides under it with a bit of gripfill dabed hear and there. Once its trimmed and esp once you start getting paint or paper stuck around it these things get nicely stuck in place.

Assuming OP's alterations are sensible, then this is all fair and good...

Until you come to sell.

When I purchased my house, my mortgage provider's surveyor spotted non buildings control approved work, which in turn neccesitated me getting a structural survey done (privately because my mortgage provider was charging over the odds), which highlighted lots more deficiencies.

The sale was then delayed months, whilst the seller found the money to get it assessed by a structural engineer. The mortgage company accepted that assessment, and it will be on me (and at my expense) to use that to formally do the Buildings Control retroactive approval process .

It was unnecessarily tense, both the seller and I ended up unexpectedly out a bunch of money we hadn't budgeted for, and it's still an issue I have to finish resolving.