Wood isn't what it used to be? It's not the wood its the paint

[johnnyb]

why is accoya so expensive? its almost certainly because there's no competition not because it difficult to produce.

 

[johnnyb]

imagine if accoya became the new upvc. it may happen as oil is used less and less.

 

[Artiglio]

I’d assume because its a patented process and so the chance of competition is pretty small. Not sure how long its been about, but if its claimed properties are verified over time it pretty much becomes a one off purchase, looked after its likely to last a long long time.
I’ve no idea on the eco credentials of the process but if its not to damaging it’s a very sustainable product. Difficult to see it replacing upvc purely on cost grounds, but it does offer much more attractive windows than upvc.
Everyone i’ve spoken to talks highly of it, the only real downside other than the cost is the accoya “warranty” relies on a pretty complicated coating system.

 

[Adam W.]

My father was a carpenter joiner all his life , started when he 14 in 1950, for a while he had a joinery shop with a couple of older joiners working for him. Opinions varied but common threads were,

People forget about the old timber that rotted and was replaced ( Little Ron, spent his apprenticeship in london replacing / repairing rotted sash windows in the 50’s)

Best timber in the world won’t survive poor - construction, installation , care and maintenance. It’ll just last a bit longer

Never under estimate the importance of the elevation timber is on when considering why it rotted.

Just about any paint will work if applied properly to good joinery and maintained after.

People just don’t understand or want to know about maintenance and repair.

It would have been interesting if they were all still with us today to see what they made of accoya.

What's accoya ?

 

[Doug71]

What's accoya ?

Basically Radiata pine pumped full of vinegar!


https://www.accoya.com/uk/?gclid=Cj...vX1Db-FfnKT7jB3OeqDou0OZ6rd3BH0BoCJ90QAvD_BwE

 

[AFFF]

I think acrylic paints are getting better than they used to be. But one of the major reasons why they are used by the frame manufacturers is that it saves them money big time. Drying times a significantly shorter thus improving turnaround and due to low VOC content spraying facilities are much cheaper to run as they don't need expensive filter systems or furnaces to burn off rhe VOCs. Cleanup time on spraying kit is so much quicker and cheaper with water instead of nasty organic thinners which have significant disposal costs in a commercial environment

 

[Jacob]

I think acrylic paints are getting better than they used to be. But one of the major reasons why they are used by the frame manufacturers is that it saves them money big time. Drying times a significantly shorter thus improving turnaround and due to low VOC content spraying facilities are much cheaper to run as they don't need expensive filter systems or furnaces to burn off rhe VOCs. Cleanup time on spraying kit is so much quicker and cheaper with water instead of nasty organic thinners which have significant disposal costs in a commercial environment

Well yes but all the advantages are lost if the stuff fails too soon - usually long enough after the event to have any hope of getting any recompense.
It could be that the whole industry of plastic joinery, wood preservatives, use of hardwoods, accoya, etc etc exists to make up for the deficiencies of modern paints.

 

[AFFF]

I hear you Jacob but some blame lies with the quality/cost of softwood available and lack of good maintenance. For example: I need to replace 2 gates on my house spanning a 3 metre gap. I've completed the design and started pricing up the materials. I wanted to use cedar or redwood (traditionally used for this type of work). The costs were outrageous and the quality of timber I could find was not really acceptable. It isn't that more expensive to use iroku (at least for the frames)

As for maintenance: I do a fair bit of work maintaining and painting customer's wooden framed windows and see lots of old paintwork applied by "professional" painters and DIY home owners. Most of it is rubbish. Quick rubdown (if you're lucky) followed by a single slapdash covering of top coat. Some filling with either silicone sealant or internal grade decorator's caulk. All because the customer doesn't want to pay for the job to be done properly. I hear a lot of "Just make it look nice" . I insist on 1. Complete washdown with detergent, rinse off with fresh water. 2. Rub down with appropriate grade abrasive, rake out loose paint/old filler and any rotting wood 3. Clean again with white spirit. 4. Fill with external grade 2 part epoxy filler. 5. Rub down filler and reclean with white spirit. 6. Apply knotting if required and prime/undercoat (possibly 2 coats) 7. 2 coats minimum of topcoat.
Some people baulk at the cost of this, fair enough - its their choice. But others appreciate the work involved and that it will save you money in the long run. And I'm not short of customers!

 

[thetyreman]

Just about any paint will work if applied properly to good joinery and maintained after.

People just don’t understand or want to know about maintenance and repair.

why not use interior emulsion paint then?

 

[johnnyb]

Dec's are always the same. when its rubbing down time they produce a square inch of green sandpaper from there bib pocket! simple things like washing never happen.

 

[Doug71]

Many decorators/painters these days just don't do the job properly. I was working at a house when the painters turned up to do the exterior woodwork, old place with casement windows, I offered to open the windows for them but was told it wasn't needed, they painted all the windows without opening a sash.

Similar story I renovated a house full of sash windows last year before they all got repainted. I got a call a couple of weeks ago to say could I go and ease some of the windows as now the weather was getting better they wanted to be able to open them. Again all painted without being opened so as well as all being stuck with paint there was no paint on the important bits like under the bottom rail of the bottom sash.

Painting these days seems to be about making things look "fresh" not about protecting the timber.