Wireless radiator valves.

[John Brown]

Well I just pumped in for a Wiser kit (saved £12 on it with that ebay voucher over the price anywhere else) and 12 valves. £625 all in. We have a large bungalow so may end up needing a smart plug and I can see us getting at least one extra wall stat for our bedroom. We cook about £1500 worth of oil a year.

Lets see where we end up.

I'm looking right now, and the prices(as with everthing) seem to be rising. Toolstation have the best prices, but seem to have nothing available for delivery, and apart from checking every single branch individually, there seems to be no way of locating stock for collection..

 

[DBT85]

I'm looking right now, and the prices(as with everthing) seem to be rising. Toolstation have the best prices, but seem to have nothing available for delivery, and apart from checking every single branch individually, there seems to be no way of locating stock for collection..

I wouldn't be surprised if that's just toolstation lowering the price to get search hits. The valves are pretty much exactly the same wherever you get them so it would be odd that they were that much of an outlier.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Thanks. We already have that. It's the control over individual rooms I'm after.

That's interesting. I was avoiding Tado, as I think thay were the ones who'd changed to a subscription system, although I could be wrong.

No subscription with todo

 

[DBT85]

No subscription with todo

No forced sub no, but automated geofencing and automated window open shutoff used to be free but then got put behind a £2.99 subscription. Not essential but it wigged me out enough seeing that they just up and changed the model rather than adding a sub for new features that it put me off as I mentioned right at the start of the thread. Like someone that justifies cheating on the wife, they did it once and told themselves it was OK. They'll likely do it again.

 

[paulrbarnard]

No forced sub no, but automated geofencing and automated window open shutoff used to be free but then got put behind a £2.99 subscription. Not essential but it wigged me out enough seeing that they just up and changed the model rather than adding a sub for new features that it put me off as I mentioned right at the start of the thread. Like someone that justifies cheating on the wife, they did it once and told themselves it was OK. They'll likely do it again.

I guess I must be grandfathered in because I have both those services and no subscription.

 

[DBT85]

I guess I must be grandfathered in because I have both those services and no subscription.

They did. If you own the V1, 2 or 3 kit you can pay £20 to get the new 3+ app and then I believe its free still, but basically they changed the model, customers went mental that previously free stuff was now sub based so they half backtracked to the point of only hitting new customers with the new fee. Iirc there was a bit of a scramble among some to buy the older v1,2 or 3 sets that come with the old app that can be upgraded rather than paying for the new 3+ kit which would require the subscription for those features.

https://medium.com/@marketing_engi/the-tado-backlash-479b8cfdaf0a

 

[John Brown]

They did. If you own the V1, 2 or 3 kit you can pay £20 to get the new 3+ app and then I believe its free still, but basically they changed the model, customers went mental that previously free stuff was now sub based so they half backtracked to the point of only hitting new customers with the new fee. Iirc there was a bit of a scramble among some to buy the older v1,2 or 3 sets that come with the old app that can be upgraded rather than paying for the new 3+ kit which would require the subscription for those features.

https://medium.com/@marketing_engi/the-tado-backlash-479b8cfdaf0a

Thanks for that. I knew I'd read something that put me off Tado.
I would be interested in your experience fitting the Wiser kit.
We already have s Drayton controller, so should be standard backplate. Also a Drayton RF programmer in the hallway, with a receiver in the boiler room, so should be fairly simple.
I will walk round with a tape measure later to see if any valve sites are space constrained.

 

[DBT85]

Thanks for that. I knew I'd read something that put me off Tado.
I would be interested in your experience fitting the Wiser kit.
We already have s Drayton controller, so should be standard backplate. Also a Drayton RF programmer in the hallway, with a receiver in the boiler room, so should be fairly simple.
I will walk round with a tape measure later to see if any valve sites are space constrained.

I'll document it. Mine isn't a standard backplate but it can't be too complicated. The valves have been here 3 days but the brains are with parcel force still!

Also took the effort to get some clamp type thermocouples to help balance the system.

 

[DBT85]

So. My backplate was in fact a standard for the wiring, just not a standard for fitting to anyone elses programmers. I took a moment to double check and have for now lashed the Wiser box in. I'll have to rejig some things for permanence but didn't want to get too creative until I was happy it was all working. The confusing part is that there are 6 wires that go into the backplate (N, L, 1,2,3,4). My system doesn't use 2 and it works . So with that done easily the signup was painless.

For the valves I already had Drayton TRV4 valves, so I just needed to use the metal collar and the smaller black connector to attach the valves. Put the black bit inside the metal bit and then attach it to the valve. So it up as tight as you can and then when it comes to installing on the radiator do up the metal collar with the valve clocked say 20 degrees anti clockwise so that once the collar is done up you can crank the valve round to line up in an aesthetically pleasing fashion. If you over or under egg it just undo the collar to correct.

DO read the instructions on the app. You put the batteries in, turn the nob right for 2 secs, it pairs, then you install it and then turn the knob right for 2 secs for it to calibrate. The first 2 I did I skipped the last part but noticed by the time I'd done the 3rd, so just reset the valves and repaired them and then calibrated.

All 12 are now done and I have set some schedules up. It all works as it should it would appear so we'll see how we get on. Alexa is set up so she can ignore me as usual.

Right now I just have 1 room thermostat in the living room but I can see us getting a few more. I've already noticed some radiators coming on while others aren't because the schedule says it isn't needed.

To finish it up I'll have to disable the old thermostat which is currently just set to On so that the wiser can control everything.

 

[John Brown]

So. My backplate was in fact a standard for the wiring, just not a standard for fitting to anyone elses programmers. I took a moment to double check and have for now lashed the Wiser box in. I'll have to rejig some things for permanence but didn't want to get too creative until I was happy it was all working. The confusing part is that there are 6 wires that go into the backplate (N, L, 1,2,3,4). My system doesn't use 2 and it works . So with that done easily the signup was painless.

For the valves I already had Drayton TRV4 valves, so I just needed to use the metal collar and the smaller black connector to attach the valves. Put the black bit inside the metal bit and then attach it to the valve. So it up as tight as you can and then when it comes to installing on the radiator do up the metal collar with the valve clocked say 20 degrees anti clockwise so that once the collar is done up you can crank the valve round to line up in an aesthetically pleasing fashion. If you over or under egg it just undo the collar to correct.

DO read the instructions on the app. You put the batteries in, turn the nob right for 2 secs, it pairs, then you install it and then turn the knob right for 2 secs for it to calibrate. The first 2 I did I skipped the last part but noticed by the time I'd done the 3rd, so just reset the valves and repaired them and then calibrated.

All 12 are now done and I have set some schedules up. It all works as it should it would appear so we'll see how we get on. Alexa is set up so she can ignore me as usual.

Right now I just have 1 room thermostat in the living room but I can see us getting a few more. I've already noticed some radiators coming on while others aren't because the schedule says it isn't needed.

To finish it up I'll have to disable the old thermostat which is currently just set to On so that the wiser can control everything.

Thanks. I will shortly take the plunge. Not sure what you mean, exactly, regarding the backplate. Did you have to rewire anything?

 

[DBT85]

Thanks. I will shortly take the plunge. Not sure what you mean, exactly, regarding the backplate. Did you have to rewire anything?

I had to swap backplates over to the one in the box, but it is wired like for like so it was just a swap. Undo on one and do up again on the other. My old backplate followed the "standard" wiring pattern but had extra plastic (it's about 20cm wide) so the drayton unit couldn't just bolt on.

So far this evening it's worked fine. When you ask for more heat it can take a minute for the valves to whir because they only listen for instructions once a minute.

The valves themselves are also only giving an approximate temperature. The wall thermostat is reading it correctly as far as I can tell.

Usually at this time of night the whole house would have at least warm radiators as most valves were set to about 3. This evening most of the 13 are cold as they've not been required. No doubt I'll have to make some adjustments to the profiles but knowing that tonight my living room won't be heated for no good reason and tomorrow during the day the bedrooms won't be heated for no good reason is nice.

We're in a 4 bed bungalow, probably in the region of 180m2 and the controller is pretty central, all the valves connected with no issue and no need for a booster.

Still not sure about that missing wire but I'll keep an eye on it. EDIT: the missing wire is normal for my system it seems. Boiler with an unvented cylinder and 3 way valve. When hot water isn't called for the valve auto switches back to heat anyway.

 

[John Brown]

I had to swap backplates over to the one in the box, but it is wired like for like so it was just a swap. Undo on one and do up again on the other. My old backplate followed the "standard" wiring pattern but had extra plastic (it's about 20cm wide) so the drayton unit couldn't just bolt on.

So far this evening it's worked fine. When you ask for more heat it can take a minute for the valves to whir because they only listen for instructions once a minute.

The valves themselves are also only giving an approximate temperature. The wall thermostat is reading it correctly as far as I can tell.

Usually at this time of night the whole house would have at least warm radiators as most valves were set to about 3. This evening most of the 13 are cold as they've not been required. No doubt I'll have to make some adjustments to the profiles but knowing that tonight my living room won't be heated for no good reason and tomorrow during the day the bedrooms won't be heated for no good reason is nice.

We're in a 4 bed bungalow, probably in the region of 180m2 and the controller is pretty central, all the valves connected with no issue and no need for a booster.

Still not sure about that missing wire but I'll keep an eye on it.

Thanks again. We're in a house which is half several hundred year old barn, and half relatively new build. I fully expect to have to add a couple of repeater/smart sockets. The WiFi needs 5 mesh units, but I know the 433mhz stuff is a bit more robust than 2.4/5.0 gigs.

 

[DBT85]

Thanks again. We're in a house which is half several hundred year old barn, and half relatively new build. I fully expect to have to add a couple of repeater/smart sockets. The WiFi needs 5 mesh units, but I know the 433mhz stuff is a bit more robust than 2.4/5.0 gigs.

Sounds similar to myself. 200 year old original house with several extensions. The house kind of sprawls I was convinced we'd need the boosters but it was fine. The furthest one is about 17 paces to get to (goggle maps reckons its about 11.5m in a straight line) from the unit. That's going through a 9" wall, a cavity wall and a few single skins/studs.

The good news is we were not all frozen to death in our sleep. The bedroom was actually the nicest temp I've felt in there for a while over night and this morning as its usually either too hot or too cold. What happens when its chilly af outside is another matter.

Today I shall attempt to disconnct the old thermostat.

EDIT: easy peasy for that job and all is now back up and running. I also have found this page which shows that my 5 wires for the programmer are correct, there is nothing for the "2" position. Y Plan central heating system

 

[furnace]

I've got a couple of Wiser repeaters that I've never used if anyone wants them?

 

[John Brown]

I've got a couple of Wiser repeaters that I've never used if anyone wants them?

I could be interested. Not sure yet...

 

[John Brown]

To follow up on the Toolstation special, I eventually phone them, and a very nice man told me which stores in the country had stock. One in Truru, six in Stockport, two in Melton Mowbray, etc.
So I bought the base kit from TS for £176.38, and ordered 8 valves from Screwfix, at £40 a piece.
P.M me with a price for the repeaters, furnace, if you want to. I won't know for sure until I have time to start installing, but will almost certainly need one, at the very least.

Sounds similar to myself. 200 year old original house with several extensions. The house kind of sprawls I was convinced we'd need the boosters but it was fine. The furthest one is about 17 paces to get to (goggle maps reckons its about 11.5m in a straight line) from the unit. That's going through a 9" wall, a cavity wall and a few single skins/studs.

The good news is we were not all frozen to death in our sleep. The bedroom was actually the nicest temp I've felt in there for a while over night and this morning as its usually either too hot or too cold. What happens when its chilly af outside is another matter.

Today I shall attempt to disconnct the old thermostat.

EDIT: easy peasy for that job and all is now back up and running. I also have found this page which shows that my 5 wires for the programmer are correct, there is nothing for the "2" position. Y Plan central heating system

Thanks, DBT. It's funny, I worked with electronics and micros most of my life, and have used{and drawn) hundreds of schematics, but car wiring diagrams, and stuff like that always look weird and confusing to me. I suppose I'm more used to labelled signals and stuff, rather than actually trying to draw all the interconnections. I checked the available space today, end the Wiser hub is exactly the same size as the existing Drayton programmer.

 

[furnace]

To follow up on the Toolstation special, I eventually phone them, and a very nice man told me which stores in the country had stock. One in Truru, six in Stockport, two in Melton Mowbray, etc.
So I bought the base kit from TS for £176.38, and ordered 8 valves from Screwfix, at £40 a piece.
P.M me with a price for the repeaters, furnace, if you want to. I won't know for sure until I have time to start installing, but will almost certainly need one, at the very least.

Thanks, DBT. It's funny, I worked with electronics and micros most of my life, and have used{and drawn) hundreds of schematics, but car wiring diagrams, and stuff like that always look weird and confusing to me. I suppose I'm more used to labelled signals and stuff, rather than actually trying to draw all the interconnections. I checked the available space today, end the Wiser hub is exactly the same size as the existing Drayton programmer.

Just let me know if you need the repeaters. Only cost would be the postage.
Cheers

 

[John Brown]

Just let me know if you need the repeaters. Only cost would be the postage.
Cheers

P.M. sent.

 

[John Brown]

Well, this is fun!
My house is half Drayton TRVs, and half Danfoss. The Wiser heads fit the Drayton, obviously. The Danfoss are the older RAVL, so the supplied adapters don't fit. So I found adapters that do fit, bit pricey, but nothing I can do about it. Just over a week after placing my order, DHL claim to have delivered them. Not to me... and none of my neighbours have seen them. The worst thing is, I seem to have bought the last six in existence...
So now half the house is wireless, the other half is worse than before, as the wireless valves can instruct the boiler to fire up at any time...whereas before the stat in the hallway had the final vote.
I guess the lesson learned is to check the TRV size before buying.

 

[furnace]

Well, this is fun!
My house is half Drayton TRVs, and half Danfoss. The Wiser heads fit the Drayton, obviously. The Danfoss are the older RAVL, so the supplied adapters don't fit. So I found adapters that do fit, bit pricey, but nothing I can do about it. Just over a week after placing my order, DHL claim to have delivered them. Not to me... and none of my neighbours have seen them. The worst thing is, I seem to have bought the last six in existence...
So now half the house is wireless, the other half is worse than before, as the wireless valves can instruct the boiler to fire up at any time...whereas before the stat in the hallway had the final vote.
I guess the lesson learned is to check the TRV size before buying.

I might have some of those Danfoss adaptors. Let me check