Will my box be rubbish?

[SledDriver]

Good evening.

I'm planning to make a box for my father as a Christmas gift, to hold something dear to him. I've never made a box, and I don't do much woodwork, but if nothing else I feel ambitious.

I own a mitre saw, bandsaw and router, amongst other tools - but no planer/thicknesser or table saw. So I'm somewhat working around the tools at my disposal. I wonder if anyone could review my drawings below and tell me if there's any blatant problems.

1. All components will be initially dimensioned using the mitre saw. With some time and a square I reckon I can get some accurate dimensions.
2. The mitres for the 'walls' will be cut using a Wealden 45 degree chamfer bit, in the absence of a table saw.
3. The top and bottom will, after being glued on, be cut flush using a flush trim bit.
4. I am aware that I will have endgrain exposed on the top and bottom, but think it could be a nice feature, and I might be sticking some lettering on anyway.
5. The chamfer on the top of the lid will be with the same 45 degree router bit.
6. Given my lack of planer/thicknesser, I'll be buying 10mm sheet mahogany from Timberline, and 3mm sycamore sheet or equivalent from ebay.
7. The box will be cut in half with the bandsaw.

Thanks very much.

 

[Ollie78]

Looks like a nice design.

The only real problem I can see is the diagonal cut, you say you would bandsaw it. I would not trust a bandsaw not to wander on this cut unless it was a very small box or a big bandsaw with a very good blade, also you could get some tearing or breakout on the inner face of the wood which is unsupported.
I realise this will be covered by the liner and lip but still could cause a problem.
I would probably do it with a nice sharp hand saw, just slow and careful, you could clamp a guide to it.

Ollie

 

[graham88]

+1 for Ollie's suggestion. Another option I used to do back when I was starting was to find local joinery places and politely ask if they could help you out with the cut and/or stock prep, those guys are often passionate about woodworking but stuck doing the same thing day in day out so appreciate something different. Amazing what you can get done for the cost of a few packs of biscuits and tea break supplies.

 

[Hornbeam]

Your design needs to allow for seasonal timber movement, It would be much better made from fully veneered MDF or ply. In solid it will try and pull itself apart at the top and bottom where the cross grain of the sides meets the long grain of the top/bottom
If you havent done much veneering I would be very careful with burr veneers as they can be difficult to lay and need a good amount of preparation to get a good end result
Separating box lids I always do by hand with a fine hand saw

 

[SledDriver]

Looks like a nice design.

The only real problem I can see is the diagonal cut, you say you would bandsaw it. I would not trust a bandsaw not to wander on this cut unless it was a very small box or a big bandsaw with a very good blade, also you could get some tearing or breakout on the inner face of the wood which is unsupported.
I realise this will be covered by the liner and lip but still could cause a problem.
I would probably do it with a nice sharp hand saw, just slow and careful, you could clamp a guide to it.

Ollie

Thanks for the advice.

I was planning on buying a brand new blade from tuffsaws specifically for the cut - something high tooth and fairly deep to keep it straight. I think I'd use the mitre guide to hold the angle. I will definitely give that some thought however. I'm not sure I can envisage the clamped guides - but with a guide I suppose I'd want a japanese style saw to cut flush to the guide?

It will in fact be a small box - only 18 x 18 x 25cm or so.

 

[SledDriver]

Your design needs to allow for seasonal timber movement, It would be much better made from fully veneered MDF or ply. In solid it will try and pull itself apart at the top and bottom where the cross grain of the sides meets the long grain of the top/bottom
If you havent done much veneering I would be very careful with burr veneers as they can be difficult to lay and need a good amount of preparation to get a good end result
Separating box lids I always do by hand with a fine hand saw

Will that be a concern on a small box? 18cm x 18cm x 25cm or so. I did consider that the wood wouldn't be able to move much, but thought there wouldn't be much force generated at that size and the glue would probably hold it fine.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd make the top and bottom floating panels, trapped in a groove all round.
You can still achieve a visible raised panel lamination but keeping few mm away from the sides, Matt Estlea on youtube has some videos which might give the jist of things better than my explanation can.

 

[Ollie78]

Thanks for the advice.

I was planning on buying a brand new blade from tuffsaws specifically for the cut - something high tooth and fairly deep to keep it straight. I think I'd use the mitre guide to hold the angle. I will definitely give that some thought however. I'm not sure I can envisage the clamped guides - but with a guide I suppose I'd want a japanese style saw to cut flush to the guide?

It will in fact be a small box - only 18 x 18 x 25cm or so.

Depends on the saw I guess. Personally I wouldn`t do it in my saw even with a tuffsaws blade, which it has. My machine is a Scheppach basato 3 which is only a fairly small unit so I don`t think it can get the tension in a thicker blade for a cut like this. It has the power but not the tension if you see what I mean.

The problem is the hollowness can cause uneven tension on the blade as it passes through this will definitely try to force a bend or twist in the blade.
If you have a bigger bandsaw it might be fine.
I suggest a quick test box from MDF, plywood or something, the only way to know for sure.

Ollie

 

[baldkev]

If youve got enough material, try making 2 or 3 boxes.... that way if you fubar a step, you can have another bash at it armed with the knowledge you just learnt from failure... plus, it'll take the pressure off the project knowing you have a fall back

 

[Ttrees]

Here's what you could do, getting the contrast on the raised panel.
This is called a floating panel, but you could make it look like the panel is actually suspended in thin air with the next lamination to match the perimeter, somewhat like you propose, which would make a good dust catcher.

 

[Fitzroy]

I think the beauty in the box will be in the finish quality, which I doubt you'll achieve first time, I would be planning to prototype. I made a slightly novel box last year (round) and ended up getting it correct on version 5, I ended up with 2 boxes as 5 and 6 were made at the same time.

I am also concerned over the movement issues, here's a link to help you understand how much you could see in an 180mm width board, only you can decide if you are ok with this.

Separating box lids is common practice, yours is just on an angle, there are lots of videos out there, I think with all of them you will need to plane the cut edge to get the precise fit up you want.

 

[Jacob]

Yes a bit of practice first! Maybe by box 5 you'll be getting a good result.
Perhaps just make a plain box first with no laminations or other complications, just 6 sides in a single material. Joining mitred edges perfectly will be very difficult - there are easier ways to make a box.
A really useful bit of kit for box making would be a large flat sanding disc, for finishing the outside of the box and also for matching up the meeting edges of the sawn off lid.

 

[Kayen]

IMO the box will have great sentimental value to your father, and I'm sure he will appreciate the effort you have put into it, even if it isn't perfect. If you start on a journey of 4, 5, or 6 boxes you'll never finish it, so crack on, do your best and enjoy the experience of making something for someone you love, and their pleasure in receiving it.

 

[Fitzroy]

IMO the box will have great sentimental value to your father, and I'm sure he will appreciate the effort you have put into it, even if it isn't perfect. If you start on a journey of 4, 5, or 6 boxes you'll never finish it, so crack on, do your best and enjoy the experience of making something for someone you love, and their pleasure in receiving it.

Totally agree, crack on. This is what I mean by prototyping. Grab a bit of correct sized wood and bash something out in an hour. Get a feel for which activities are difficult. Practice those activities a bit, then go for your first finished piece, being aware you may need a follow up. Or make two at once as a backup. You can see my round box journey below.

 

[Jacob]

Totally agree, crack on. This is what I mean by prototyping. Grab a bit of correct sized wood and bash something out in an hour. Get a feel for which activities are difficult. Practice those activities a bit, then go for your first finished piece, being aware you may need a follow up. Or make two at once as a backup. You can see my round box journey below.
View attachment 145943

Well yes. You decide whether or not it's a "prototype" after you've finished one. Or the one after....
Bin there dunnit!

 

[SledDriver]

I appreciate all of the suggestions, which have been food for thought.

The current design is intended to minimise the difficulty to achieve a desired outcome. I do recognise that the top and bottom could be liable to movement as they're solid boards and that it might be a risk to continue with the current design, but the prospect of cutting rabbits and dado's for a floating panel somewhat concern me - with the absence of a table saw and flexible router setup I'd be a bit concerned about accuracy.

With a view to partly mitigating the issue however, I'm considering whether the approach shown below would be useful. Yes the wood will still move, but with the bulk removed from the interior of the thicker pieces and thus less 'force' being applied in the movement, Perhaps it's more likely to be successful in the long run.

I do also appreciate that it might be an absolute disaster for a first time attempt, but to borrow a phrase - at some point there's nothing left to do but do it.

 

[thetyreman]

I wouldn't attempt to make such a complex box as your first piece, you are free to make it but don't ignore the warnings about wood movement, a more traditional approach would be to learn how to dovetail, joint it with dovetails then use floating lids that can actually move with the seasons.

 

[Phill05]

Ten questions = 20 different answers, look the box is not all that big so you should not get too much movement if you keep the timber in a warm room and put it together the best you can with the tools you have, do it and see how it goes then and only then you will know more what it takes to make such a lovely box that will be used and admired by your father.

 

[Trextr7monkey]

Hi
Plenty of advice to keep you busy.
I spent a lot of years making boxes with school kids and might as well throw in my 2p worth
Nearest floor is floating version mentioned above either a plunge router or drop in on a router table.
Regarding sides 45 degrees mitred corners can be a devil to glue up but look at some of the corner clamps which grip to an internal angle bracket to get an idea of a good way to do it then improvise.
Cutting the box apart best done on a table saw or large bandsaw as mentioned above. On table saw we used to drop blade right down so it would cut through about 95% of the way to avoid nasty breakouts on the interior.
I would not too worried about movement with that size of box

 

[Graham Brazier]

Could you inlay a piece of timber rather than cut the box at an angle using a router for example
( apologies if this has already been mentioned )