Phil Pascoe
Established Member
As my penniless grandmother always said when I was a child - you don't make poor people rich by making rich people poor.
Wild fires in BC Canada.
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Whether global warming due to us humans is happening or not is causing panic rather than logical thinking and rash decision making from the powers that be. If it is true then going by our history, we will be incapable of addressing it simply because we cannot unite to address a global problem from a global perspective. It now turns out that no one wants to invest in offshore wind because they have kept the prices down to secure the contracts and are now facing the reality that the true cost of wind power is higher than gas but so what, gas will run out whilst the wind should keep blowing so it is more future proof. The real problem is just that we have tried to run before we can walk, a mad panic to close coal fired power stations and the last coalmine just to be able to say look at what we have done, deliberately damaged our future for nothing. So we are in a big mess that none of us mere mortals can have any impact on especially considering our average ages and what will be will now happen, more than likely way to late to change anything so I am going to get on and get things done, making sawdust.
I think you're forgetting the "Per Capita" bit - India may well have that many billionaires, but amongst how many in their population, which is many times greater than ours?
You may have noticed that I say wealth distribution is a global problem, not just the UK's.
And by the way, I am including the likes of Sunak and co. in the people I would dearly like to see taxed more.
Historically, we in the UK have been world leaders in adding CO2 to the atmosphere, as well as introducing the world to acid rain and probably a few more nasties besides - we should own up to that.
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Do you not find it the least little bit disturbing that the richest people contribute the smallest fraction of their income to the good of society? The poorest have always (and by the look of it will always) pay the biggest fraction of their wealth in supporting the world. A fairer system is long overdue.
Not only does money attract money but also good accountants, why do we have any loopholes in our tax system and why have legal tax avoidance when the fairest way is simply to pay tax on what you earn end of. Answer is simply greed and corruption, if there was a will then it would have been implemented but it would upset the wealthy echelons of society who have so much influence over the running of the country and back the major political parties.
Nope, the UK hasn’t been the world leader in CO2 emissions. If you take India, deforestation, cooking on open fires, burning coal and multiply it by its population at any point in history it dwarfs the UK.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Complete nonsense.
Did she read the Daily Mail by any chance? It's amazing how people will leap to the defence of the well to do in spite of the problems they cause. It's years of media brain washing.
The thing don’t get hung up on us people’s wealth. A billionaire doesn’t have the cash stuffed under the mattress or indeed in a bank. It’s invested in industry, it employs people and leads to new inventions and products that we all enjoy and adds to enrich everyone’s lives. The businesses they own / have shares in pay tax. The vast majority of their wealth is not cash. Take Elon Musk, his wealth is derived from his shares in various businesses. A lot of which are considered green, cars, batteries, solar power etc etc. he employs a huge amount of people around the world. Do I get upset about his wealth? Not a bit. In fact thank god for capitalism that encourages the risk takers
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Complete opposite of the truth, as usual. Why continually churn out nonsense?
India is very low down the list of per capita CO2 emissions, as is China, but high on the list of total emissions, due to large populations.
You shouldn't waste your time even having opinions, let a lone expressing them, if you are too lazy to check your facts.
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Until the risk is too great and we end up with the environmental and climate catastrophe, on top of the long history of slavery, colonialism, genocide, poverty, which makes free market capitalism so profitable... etc etc
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
No, The Mirror.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
You've missed the point as usual. The issue is not wealth as such, the problem is poverty in its many variations.
We have already had this discussion, and again you are illustrating your complete lack of comprehension. Who cares about how much CO2 per person is generated? If the UK generates x tonnes of CO2, that’s all we can affect, that’s the limit of our ability to reduce CO2. If India produces 20X CO2 thats for them to resolve, how ever they want, they are a sovereign nation after all. Now if global warming is such an issue, surely they will want to pull their weight and as a nation get to net zero by 2030 to avoid the elimination of the human species?
So the UK is reducing is CO2 whilst India is increasing its???. Seems like the world is going to hell in a hand cart, so bankrupting the UK driving towards net zero that can’t be achieved is a pointless exercise. To quote Crocodile Dundee, ‘it’s like two fleas on the back of a dog arguing over who owns it’,
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That’s because you have and continue to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding about economics.
Slavery is as old as mankind, every nation has been involved with it. Now, if you’re talking about the African Slavery this was driven by, caused by, managed by, profited by Black Africans. The white man did not capture slaves in Africa, they bought them at the shores. The UK stopped slavery around the world! Another Woke myth and legend swallowed by the uneducated sheep.
Again, not sure which nation you’re accusing of colonialism as just about every nation has also been guilty of that. We have the commonwealth which is by agreement, where we gave nations their independence and still looked after them. I can’t think of when the UK committed genocide, but I can think of lots of socialist societies that have as well as lots in Africa.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Working on the comedy act I see.
So they weren't responsible for the slave trade then, because they were already slaves when bought?
So it's OK to own slaves if they were are already slaves at time of purchase?
I bet even slavers didn't try to excuse themselves with anything quite so silly.
Have you bought any slaves yourself Deema? It's OK to own them is they were already registered you know. Just need proof of purchase. Get me a couple I could do with a few myself!
You could write a handbook Deema - "Idle Thoughts and Empty Cliches for the Deeply Unwoke".
It could be a best seller! I bet Viz would publish it, just up their street. Viz | The Official Viz Comic Website
https://www.moretvicar.com/collections/viz-magazine-shop
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@Jacob, every tribe in Africa collected slaves and sold them. The point which you clearly fail to comprehend is that nobody, black, white or from any ethnic group isn’t innocent. Like most things, what was acceptable today will be considered unacceptable tomorrow. You can’t make moral judgements based on your modern day perspective.
You can’t be found guilty for the deeds of your father. A basic premise in all law for all nations. The UK stopped slavery, my hands are clean.
You can’t be found guilty for the deeds of your father. A basic premise in all law for all nations. The UK stopped slavery, my hands are clean.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
You have missed the point again Deema. Make a note of it for your book.
danst96
Established Member
Reread his comment Jacob, you'll notice he didn't say per capita, he was speaking about the overall emissions.
Cleaner air is a noble cause but to suggest the UK by itself can make any dent on global emissions is laughable. As India, Bangladesh and many other East Asian nations grow, the more manufacturing will move to those countries and the more their emissions are going to grow. Couple this with a ballooning global population and more demand for goods than ever before. Do you really think countries like the above are going to prioritize emissions over commercial output of their nations? Absolutely not.
Everybody can make a difference. To suggest that just because someone else is going to make emissions, we should just join in is lazy and wrong, every bit of CO2 we don't emit is helping. There are more billions of people in the world than I know, imagine if every one of them, individually, did all they could to save the planet, what a difference that would make. As for the idea that it's not possible to drag a country out of poverty without following the same steps we made in the West, look at the mobile phone networks in parts of Africa - they're enabling more commerce and trade for the people without those people ever having had to use a landline, like we did.
Progress does not have to stop, it just has to change and the most important change of all is in mindset.
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