Why No Planer Thicknesser / Saw Combination machines ?

[flanajb]

Why does no one do such a machine. There must be loads of people out there who use a router table for moulding, but could do with a combined PT / Saw combination

 

[big soft moose]

Why does no one do such a machine. There must be loads of people out there who use a router table for moulding, but could do with a combined PT / Saw combination

jack of all trades - master of none

I would rather have seperates each tailored to do one job properly , not a machine composed of compromises that subsequently does three jobs poorly.

 

[beech1948]

flanajb,

Much of what is talked about re combination machines is hogwash by people who have not used one.

Given that many hobbyists buy machines which are at the cheaper end of those available then I would say that any half way decent conbi would beat the pants off of most of the stuff available to hobbyists. Lowest end of the combi quality league is probably Robland. Those which are cheaper such as Kity, Record etc are probably compromised but I do not know this as I have never used one.

I would pick a good quality combi any day over most of the hobbyist stuff.

The drawer back with a combi are as follows:-
1) Space needed. To work satisfactorily most combi need about a 5mx5m space so you can get all round it. Obviously separate cheaper machines can be crammed into this space.
2) Occasionally changeover from one function to another can take a few seconds longer than separates but in a hobby world this is not a material factor to effect choice
3) A decent combi will include a spindle which will often make a router table user anxious due to its power. Its just a matter of getting used to it.

I have a Felder 740 combi which is about 7 years old. To be blunt it is too much for a hobbyist but it is very very accurate and allows me to return to settings previously used precisely. Change overs are fast and slick. It will cut an 8x4 board easily, the P/T is as good if not better than the standalone, the spindle is fantastic but probably best to take a course like I did.

regards
Alan

 

[jasonB]

A Combi works for me too.

As for your original question I think that the SM fits into the space taken by the saw table so it does not take up anymore footprint and can also us ethe same sliding table/carrage as the saw, therefore it does not add significantly to the build cost or siz eof the machine so the makers put them on.

Also once you have used a spindle you will not use the router table as much for just running mouldings, the spindle gives a better finish, is quicker, is quieter and can control the dust better than a router table

Jason

 

[ike]

I've always thought combis are an expensive solution compared to separates. Although I think the Bestcombi 2000 is one of the best value offerings for the DIY/home user. How many home workshops can allow 5m x 5m just for one machine?

 

[cerdeira]

Why does no one do such a machine. There must be loads of people out there who use a router table for moulding, but could do with a combined PT / Saw combination

I've asked myself the same question many times.
I guess that's because no western company ever made one and now that the asian manufactories took over they have nothing to copy from.

Now the politically correct answer: I think that in a saw/moulder combo both modes can share the same table top, whereas a saw/PT doesn't (unless you'd line up the infeed and outfeed tables of the planer to be flush with the saw top which would be kind of cumbersome.

 

[jasonB]

How many home workshops can allow 5m x 5m just for one machine

The same as can allow 5mx5m for 3 separtate machines. But the combi user has all his walls clear for other things if you allow 8ft infeed and outfeed room on all the separates and room at atleast one side.

Most of the time mine is against one wall, this allows me to use the saw with sliding carrage, spindle, thicknesser an dto surface smaller sections of timber, if I need to surface something a bit weighty then I can easily move it away from the wall.

I still have one wall free for my bench, one for chopsaw/radial arm, one for storage /up & over door/bandsaw as well as clear floor space to asemble work or break down larger sheets. Yes mine is 5mx5m, typical double garage.

unless you'd line up the infeed and outfeed tables of the planer to be flush with the saw top

My planer outfeed is flush with the table saw and when wound upto zero so is the infeed, I would say 90% of combis are the same.

Jason

 

[Racers]

Hi,

It seems that every time combi are mentioned the same old "facts" are trotted out about how bad they are. I have a Kitty 2000 in a single car garage and have no problems using it, sure you have to do some forward planning for your stock preperation but thats a good thing.


Pete

 

[johnf]

Why would you not want a spindle moulder once used never forgotten,
for example 20mm x 20mm rebates one pass
and cutters are cheaper than router cutters and you can get more than one profile out of a cutter.
On a combi you almost get the spindle for free.
mine stands in the center of the workshop so you can work all round .
get a wheel kit so you can move it if you need to.
It works for me would not be without it

 

[flanajb]

Replies were slightly off topic, but very valid and I am still trying to decide whether I should go combi or separates. With separates I suppose you have the ability to move them against walls when not in use where as a combi is a bigger machine.

Plus, a good combi will cost me considerably more than 3 semi decent separates.

 

[dickm]

There used to be one or two low end saw/PT combinations (Coronet and Kity for example), but they all had their disadvantages. If you are at all short of space, I'd go for the complete combi without any hesitation. My antediluvian Lurem has a spindle built in, but I've not got any tooling for it and so have never used it. But it still takes up less than a metre square, and does all I need. OK, it takes a few moments to change from saw to P/T, but for a hobbyist that doesn't matter.
Would still like a Startrite (Robland) 210 to keep the 352 company now that there is no danger of rust in the shop, though! (The Lurem has heavy alloy tables)

 

[beech1948]

Re my statement that a combi needs about 5x5m. Bear in mind that a combi will physically take up about a 1.5x1.5m space only. If you only use it as a saw then you will onlt take up this plus the space to move the slider.

If like me you use with a power feed and a 2.3m outrigger then you do need that space.

My workshop is 17ftx28ft. I keep the combi at the front ans use the walls for storage and have my bench at the back plus a fold up assembly bench. The back wall has a worktop along the whole length with various things on it and drawers below.

For me it works very well.

regards
Alan

 

[gasman]

I would add that my combi has been excellent (Record C26+) over the last 3 years. I have to be honest that only occasionally do I use the spindle moulder, and never the thicknesser as I bought a Makita portable one but the table saw is extremely accurate and the planer also quite excellent (it has the Tersa cutting block which give an amazing finish)

 

[Woodcrafts]

When I was looking for machinery (about 10 years ago) I had a demonstration of a Robland saw / planer-thicknesser combination. I wasn't sure whether I would need a spindle moulder, but in the end decided to go for the version with the spindle. While not used every day, the extra capacity of the spindle over a router table has proved very useful. I still do most of the smaller moulding work with a router though. The Robland wasn't the cheapest, but still as good now as when new. It performs all of its functions as well as separate machines - no compromises!

My workshop is limited for space, hence the reason for choosing a combi rather than separates. However it takes very little time to change functions so I have not found it to be a disadvantage. I do need to be fairly organised though.

 

[OPJ]

There used to be one or two low end saw/PT combinations (Coronet and Kity for example), but they all had their disadvantages.

Rutlands still sell the Fox Saw/Spindle Moulder machine. I think Charnwood do an identical version as well.

I agree with the comments on compromising with machines in this price bracket. For instance, this saw will only cut 2" deep timber. For about £600, you could get a similarly sized table saw that'll cut 3" thick (or even more, if you go second-hand). With the spindle, I think it'll only take blocks up to 140mm in diameter, which is a bit limiting compared with the capacities of a stand-alone machine. Then again, a £600 spindle moulder probably wouldn't serve you any better (thinking of the Fox and Charnwood models again).

 

[Mr Ed]

I've never used a combi machine, but the fact that renowned professional makers such as Robert Ingham choose to set themselves up with them (Felder in his case) makes me think they must be an effective way of working.

Cheers, Ed

 

[wizer]

Yes and I have seen workshops with separates setup in a similar way to how a combi would be laid out. i.e making use of negative space to keep everything in one 'island' so that you can work around it. I must try to remember where I saw that, it was very clever.

 

[katellwood]

I'm on my second combi and for a one man band/hobbiest they are excellent

My first was a Lurem C210B, cast alloy saw/spindle and cast iron planer thicknesser tables. I bought it in 1987 for £750 and sold it in 2005 for £900.

My second and a replacement for the Lurem is a Felder BF5 1986 vintage. all cast iron with three motors, an excellent machine. the 12" wide P/T is a distinct advantage and the tilting spindle moulder makes this machine much more versatile

Only waiting now for retirement when I plan to opt for a upgraded felder with a longer sliding table.

One other thing I have found with both my combi's is that the space needed to increase the sheet ripping facility is not wasted as it is the planer beds. on a standalone saw with a large rip capacity this space in my opinion is often wasted

 

[chipchaser]

HI and welcome flanajb,

Kity used to make exactly what you are asking about. One could buy a variety of machines and assemble them on one table driven by one motor. I have a Kity table saw and a Kity planer thicknesser bought secondhand as separate machines. Both work very well for me.

I haven't tried a combination Kity as I don't have room but would if I had more space.

I paid more for my separate machines than I could have paid for a combination machine with, as well as the 2 bits I have, a spindle moulder, slot morticer and a blade sharpening attachment. With hindsight it would have been cheaper for me to buy a combination machine and split it up into separates as additional electric motors to power each machine are not difficult to find or expensive.

If you are interested in a Kity combination machine be sure to get a full description of the capacities of each unit as, for example, the p/t part was available in different widths from 6" upwards.

Regards

Graham

 

[chill]

Hi Flanajb, I have a Kity Bestcombi that I am selling because im upgrading pm me if interested