Why is this happening?

[wizer]

Hello

I was sharpening my Veritas BUS blade today. For some reason this was happening:

I was using the Veritas Mk.II on Waterstones and then Diamond stones. I checked that the blade was square in the honing guide.

What's going on?

 

[MikeG.]

Tom,

1/ is the end of the blade square?
2/ are the stones flat?
3/ Are the back face and the front face of the chisel parallel with each other?
4/ Are the edges of the chisel parallel?
5/ Did you apply even pressure?
6/ Are you sure the chisel was square in the guide?
7/ Is the axle of the roller on the guide perfectly parallel with the tool-holding surface, and parallel with the front edge?

If the answer to all of the above is "yes", then you live in an area with an anomaly. Our village has an anomaly. This anomaly means that water can flow uphill locally. At least, that is the conclusion I came to after I put a spirit level on a newly installed soil pipe when the plumber assured me it was perfect.

Mike

 

[wizer]

1/ is the end of the blade square?
yes

2/ are the stones flat?
Well I was flattening the waterstones, but when I went onto the diamond stone, this scratch pattern continued in the same way.

3/ Are the back face and the front face of the chisel parallel with each other?
Not sure

4/ Are the edges of the chisel parallel?
Not sure

5/ Did you apply even pressure?
Yes and then played with putting more preasure on either end to see if I could make the scratch pattern even out.

6/ Are you sure the chisel was square in the guide?
I remounted it twice and checked it with a square. It's possible that the wheel is out og whack?

7/ Is the axle of the roller on the guide perfectly parallel with the tool-holding surface, and parallel with the front edge?
This could be the problem

 

[OPJ]

I've had the same honing guide for several months now and have not noticed any problem like this, I'm sorry to say (...well, quite pleased, actually! :wink: )

Did you buy the camber roller assembly as well? If you did... Don't tell me you were trying to hone a square bevel with the camber roller still in place...! :roll:

My first reaction was that the stone(s) probably aren't flat, most likely dished. Or, perhaps you're putting too much pressure on one side?

Is this the first time you've used the jig? I assume you used the setting gauge okay.

 

[Escudo]

whizz, I have experienced similar problems, on occasion, but not to such an extent. I put it down to uneven pressure on the blade when using the veritas guide you mention.

As long as the blade is sharp does it matter, that the bevel is not even (as long as the edge is square, I would add)?.......not to sure about that thought?

Tony

 

[Paul Chapman]

When you put the blade in the honing guide, did you tighten the two brass knobs an equal amount so that the clamping bar was level? If not, that could possibly have skewed the blade.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[dunbarhamlin]

As long as the blade is sharp does it matter, that the bevel is not even (as long as the edge is square, I would add)?.......not to sure about that thought?
Tony

In my (limited) experience, only significant for a mortise chisel, where a significantly uneven bevel (sigh - in days of yore this was the bezel) can make the chisel more inclined to wander off line when driving and twist when levering out the waste.
Steve

 

[swagman]

This is another reason why its far better to hone by hand.

You alone, have complete control of the pressure applied across the stone.

As long as the stone is flat, the rest is just is practice.


swagman.

 

[Screw Loose]

Wizer I've had a simular problem with the first Veritas honing guide I purchased

The problem I experienced was that I could hone a square primary angle but when I altered the roller wheel for the micro bevel the micro bevel was not parallel to the primary angle

I got in touch with Brimarc

They exchanged the honing guide and the problem went away

 

[tnimble]

If you haven't experienced this before with using the same guid check the blade angle / protrusion gauge. The back or the groove / ridge may be dented or hve dome dirt on it. Also check the front of the guide where the setup gauge is mounted on. Also check with a little sqauere the angle of the setup gauge when mounted on the guide. The setup gauge is meant to be able to tilt up and down a bit. Check its squareness in both most far tilt angles.

 

[wizer]

Ok, I'm pretty certain it's not to do with uneven pressure as I played with this and couldn't change the results. I don't own the camber roller. I've had the jig a while and if i'm honest, I think this has always happened, at least last time I used it. I tried on waterstones and diamond stones and I think it's unlikely that both are unflat in the same way. I have heard about the uneven tightening of the thumb screws before and I'm sure I'd tightened evenly.

I do think this is going to turn out to be a problem with the guide itself. It seems like it's not square to the wheel. I will have another play with it this afternoon and see if I can work out what's going on.

Thanks guys.

 

[lurker]

Trouble is, we buy these fancy toys and assume the more they cost the "better" they are.
As you are proving the more things to set up the more faults you have to eliminate.

By hand, none of Mike's list are an issue so long as you keep checking.
All I need is an eye glass & a small engineers square.

 

[bugbear]

This is another reason why its far better to hone by hand.

You alone, have complete control of the pressure applied across the stone.

This is also true with every honing guide I'd ever used.

BugBear

 

[wizer]

Depends if the person sharpening is a ten thumbed silly person? I'll try later and see if I can work out what's going wrong.

Whilst I admit the Veritas MK.II can be considered an expensive toy, it is also highly spoke of amongst those people who use them and so should be able to work perfectly well.

 

[WellsWood]

Which of the 2 ground areas on the bevel is your new one Tom? Have you checked with an engineers square which of them is actually not square to the side. Could it be that the factory supplied bevel is out a bit and that simply makes your new grinding appear to out?

 

[woodbloke]

Very strange, don't like the look of that blade I've never used the Veritas Mark II so can't comment except to say that it's clearly something in the set up that's gone a bit awry. Fwiw I use a Charlesworthian modified Eclipse clone guide with a narrow roller. This means that finger pressure only (there's little pressure on the guide itself) on the edge of the blade dictates what the edge will look like, so the sort of result shown in your pics would be a bit of a novelty.
Got a Tormek? :lol: - Rob

 

[wizer]

Mark I checked the blade for square last night after Mike's post. The new scratch pattern is at the front of the blade. The scratch patter seemed to grow out from the top right, as you look at the picture, but would only just touch the top left.

It could be my setup. I am going to try everything suggested when I get in from work (Boo!)

 

[Jake]

bevel (sigh - in days of yore this was the bezel)

Looking at the OED, corrupted to 'basil' at one stage (Moxon cited), and itself a corruption of 'biseau'. Maybe we should parlay en francais pour the sake of tradition?

 

[WellsWood]

If your edge is the one at the front can I ask why you feel it necessary to take so much off? You really only need to put a very small micro bevel on and polish the back at the edge ( not in that order particularly).

 

[wizer]

I only went on so long because I was trying to work out what was going on. When I started, the top left was not sharpening.


Oh BTW, when I put the blade back in the smoother, it planed end grain without hardly any complaint. So it's not like I can't use it like this. Just curious as to why it's happening.