Why is this dangerous kit being advertised on here?

[TRITON]

No I'd disagree. It's not one culture or the other and Britain was the sensible one . I've seen some bad practise in the UK and the HSE is a relatively new invention. Up till the 70's even 80's, there was little interest in health or safety of the workers anywhere in the UK

It was a labour government insisted on heath and safety, certainly not the tories to spend money to the benefit of the workers safety. Be that in the UK, or the US.

 

[Cabinetman]

Yes that was an appalling thing to happen.

 

[Jacob]

If you are in control then you also take responsibility and safety has to start with the individual, you cannot make tools and machinery 100% safe without either taking the blades out or cutting the power lead to prevent operation. The safety measures put in place are not there to make the machine safe, they are there to reduce the risk of an accident from occuring because even with all guards in place the cutting device has to be exposed to get the workpiece to it and the machine does not care if it is wood or flesh.

The push sticks being sold, state that

"The PushPRO Push Stick delivers a better cut than plastic-only push stick. The ergonomically designed long handle can also be unclipped and replaced with shop-made timber replacement for any special situations, the 460mm long PushPro conforms with UK and European standards."

So they are long and whether you feel they are safe is down to ergonomics but for some they will be ok whilst for others they will not so just don't use them if you feel unsafe and something to bear in mind is the STAR mindset.

Stop, Think, Act and Review which means to stop and think before doing then ask yourself could you have done it even safer.



But when compared to the gun culture they have then it shifts safety to a different level and perception.

PushPRO Push Stick is severe gadgetry at its worst. 4 times the price of a typical standard push stick but with a useless tiny birdsmouth and a lot of promotional baloney attached.
Compare contrast Axminster Workshop Push Stick buy one of these and make a stack of copies from ply or MDF

 

[Jacob]

..... nb I'm not promoting Axminster its just that their product comes up with a good photo.

 

[Cabinetman]

It might be educational to see what length push sticks are supplied by the OEMs when buying a saw.

Starter for 10 (digits, retention thereof): Makita MLT100. Overall length 410mm. Distance from heel to thumb when holding it 250mm.

Fastcap sold by B&Q noted as 300mm long.

Axminster Workshop push stick noted as 42.5cm long

Trend pushstick 42cm long.

Bow Products (Axminster) 460mm

So four out of five above do not meet the 450mm minimum.

I suppose it depends on the size of the machine to some extent, my instructor back in the 70s said your hands should never cross the front edge of the table whilst the saw is spinning , I have stuck to that instruction ever since and have never had a scary moment on a table saw.
Obviously on some saws it’s further to the blade from the front edge hence different length of push stick.

 

[Jacob]

I suppose it depends on the size of the machine to some extent, my instructor back in the 70s said your hands should never cross the front edge of the table whilst the saw is spinning , I have stuck to that instruction ever since and have never had a scary moment on a table saw.
Obviously on some saws it’s further to the blade from the front edge hence different length of push stick.

Good advice really. Sets you up on "alert" so that you become very aware of when you do reach over, as you probably will do, but cautiously!

 

[Cabinetman]

As was said the preponderance of online stuff comes from over there and there is damn all we can do to influence it so hobbyists here are going to suffer.
One small step would be to have that advert removed, haven’t heard from the mods yet on this, but there’s probably nothing to be done as the site owners won’t want to be seen to be censoring/banning advertisers.
I’m thinking about starting every post with, Don’t buy Milescraft "safety" kit it’s dangerous!

 

[johnnyb]

I watched a chap drop £80 on something similar( different brand maybe) I was appalled at its dodgy concept tbh. I did post about it after harrogate.

 

[Doug71]

A screenshot from Milescraft video on the PushStick

No guard, cross cutting a narrow piece against a full length fence and nice baggy sleeves, what could possibly go wrong?

Glad I'm not a beginner learning from YouTube...........

 

[bp122]

A screenshot from Milescraft video on the PushStick

No guard, cross cutting a narrow piece against a full length fence and nice baggy sleeves, what could possibly go wrong?

Glad I'm not a beginner learning from YouTube...........


View attachment 172632

My entire spine got a chill just looking at this!

 

[hennebury]

The safe use of a table saw requires knowledge. Purchasing a table saw does not! Maybe therein lies the answer.
The safety of Children is the parents responsibility.
The safety of adults is their own.
Living is dangerous, most everything you do has the potential of injuring or killing you.
It is not your responsibility to remove everything dangerous from the media, where would you start, the Olympics, Gymnastics, The isle of Mann TT, all sports, the movies, YouTube, how about driving a car, riding a motorcycle, or the absolute most dangerous, riding a bicycle on the main road. What about wingsuits, anyone can buy one and jump off a mountain.
Is it your job to be a father to other adults?
What of personal responsibility?

Sometime around 1973 I watched a movie called "Little Fuass and Big Halsy" about motocross racing, went out that week straight to the Yamaha shop and ordered the biggest dirt bike that they made a SC 500 single cylinder, 500cc full race bike. A big change from my ten-speed bicycle. I had never been on a motorcycle before. I could very easily have been killed. Who would be responsible, Paramount, Robert Redford, the Yamaha shop or me?

Everything is dangerous!
As an adult I have to take responsibility for what I do, and that includes getting educated so that I understand what I need to know to try something new.
Keeping in mind that if you are alive you are always at risk of injury and death.

Personal safety is a personal thing.
The way that I have worked for the past 50 years would get me stoned to death on this forum. but it kept me safe* I have all my fingers and both eyes.
*I had one nasty accident 4 years ago when a router speed control failed unexpectedly, and instantly ramping up from 8,000 to 24,000 rpm, with rather nasty results.

The screenshot above of the Milescraft pushstick,, proves the very point that ignorance and safety devices wont keep anyone safe!

 

[TRITON]

Being an industrial machine was it on hire ?

He is/was a tree surgeon. I think they said there was a brick in the way and he stepped forward to remove it. It where he stood that the leg was too close to the machine. I dont know what type of trousers, but as he was using chainsaws too, its more likely it was a proper pair of safety trousers.

I could get the nephew to send us a pic could be posted up, and I dont think the chap minds a pic of his mangled leg being shown publicly, but this is real horror show stuff and rated 21+
It's probable after viewing you'd never ever want to operate a stump grinder

 

[Spectric]

That just shows how a moments lapse in thinking can change someones life forever, he has lost a leg just because of a brick. If he was a pro then the machine being industrial surely would have a deadmans handle so the operator has to be at the controls and not the other end, that was where I was coming from when I asked if it was on hire because then if there was that safety feature and it was not working then the hire company is liable.

 

[Cabinetman]

Hennebury, "The screenshot above of the Milescraft pushstick,, proves the very point that ignorance and safety devices wont keep anyone safe! "
Mostly I would agree we have too much legislation, but this is a dangerous con.
I wonder if Trading Standards would do anything? To describe this as a safety aid is surely breaking the law here in the UK.
Ian

 

[Spectric]

Compare contrast Axminster Workshop Push Stick buy one of these and make a stack of copies from ply or MDF

Yes that is the same thing I had but soon learned that plastic is the wrong material as it shatters if the blade catches it and now use push sticks made from pine that keep the fingers well clear of those teeth. I agree push sticks are simple and easy to make without buying anything fancy but the message never seems to get through otherwise we would not see these variations on a theme.

This advert is great, emphasing it has a convenient hanger which is so not important and I like the last bit where it says it is suitable for any machine with an exposed cutting blade, are they saying a P/T or a table saw without a crown guard. For me having the push sticks at hand is part of the initial prep and making sure the wood can both enter and exit the blade without any obstructions is important, really unsafe if you are doing a cut and the workpiece hits something on your workbench to stop progress.

 

[Spectric]

A screenshot from Milescraft video on the PushStick

That really shows how to use a tablesaw in a way that is likely to result in injury and my point about the 90° handle, which the guy is demonstrating to perfection as the push stick is not giving him any distance, with a decent push stick you should complete a cut and still have your hands well clear of that blade.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

A screenshot from Milescraft video on the PushStick

With the push stick right up against the fence rather than close to the blade, a very bad practice as the piece will tend to rotate towards the back of the blade rather than push hard up against the fence when you're pushing nearer the blade. I suppose with this style of stick one would be encouraged to get as far away from the blade as possible because your hands are that much nearer the sharp spinning thing which will have more of a likelihood of kickback accidents.

Sometime around 1973 I watched a movie called "Little Fuass and Big Halsy" about motocross racing, went out that week straight to the Yamaha shop and ordered the biggest dirt bike that they made a SC 500 single cylinder, 500cc full race bike. A big change from my ten-speed bicycle. I had never been on a motorcycle before. I could very easily have been killed. Who would be responsible, Paramount, Robert Redford, the Yamaha shop or me?

Yes, I agree that we are responsible for our own safety, but if you had bought a very expensive helmet for your motorbike riding that was advertised as a safety device and it turned out it wasn't and you ended up with a cracked skull when it was much less effective than other cheaper options, you would be quite annoyed and felt you had been misled.

Yes that is the same thing I had but soon learned that plastic is the wrong material as it shatters if the blade catches it and now use push sticks made from pine

At John Carr Joinery many years ago, someone had their forearm pierced through with a pine push stick that split down the middle and turned into a projectile, I would strongly suggest a push stick of a homogenous material that isn't likely to shatter or split, such as MDF or a shatter-proof plastic.

 

[user 43593]

A screenshot from Milescraft video on the PushStick

Deity! That is a really frightening image. The tendency to believe everything that we read or see appears to be so much stronger with 'influencers' and 'likes' and the pull of social media as the ne plus ultra for so many things. Good workshop practices cannot be learned exclusively from YouTube. Some examples of YouTube practice are uplifting but most are usually too short (or provided by numpties) and educating people is way beyond their scope.

Here are a couple of fine examples of amazing woodwork:

Culver Props

Process of making a Go board

 

[Jacob]

Yes that is the same thing I had but soon learned that plastic is the wrong material as it shatters if the blade catches it

They don't normally, if made of the right sort of plastic. At least I've never had one shatter. Anyway better a shattered push stick than a cut finger!

 

[TRITON]

Yes that is the same thing I had but soon learned that plastic is the wrong material as it shatters if the blade catches it and now use push sticks made from pine that keep the fingers well clear of those teeth. I agree push sticks are simple and easy to make without buying anything fancy but the message never seems to get through otherwise we would not see these variations on a theme.
View attachment 172654
This advert is great, emphasing it has a convenient hanger which is so not important and I like the last bit where it says it is suitable for any machine with an exposed cutting blade, are they saying a P/T or a table saw without a crown guard. For me having the push sticks at hand is part of the initial prep and making sure the wood can both enter and exit the blade without any obstructions is important, really unsafe if you are doing a cut and the workpiece hits something on your workbench to stop progress.

I'm not a fan of the AX push stick, one came with the sawbench I got from them and i just didnt get on with it, preferring longer straighter wider ones I made myself from readily replaceable and to hand mdf.
As to the convient hanger up hole, I prefer mine to live on the saw table, where I know where they are and can get at them. Not 'oh where did I hang that' or when it isnt readily to hand, you make a start and when you need one it isnt there. If it lives on the saw its always there.