why is hobby woodworking in decline?

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I think it may have started years ago when woodworking was removed from the national curriculum , As a child at school I loved woodworking classes even if what I made was somewhat err well err.
I can't say the Newark show today was full of young people , Most were like me in their senior years.
Woodwork should not have been removed but Incorporated into design and technology. I kept saying " what is the uniqueness of your subject" to the teachers (woodwork, metalwork, home economics teachers) I ran courses for when d&t was introduced because so many had the idea they were meant to be watering down their subjects. "Without the skills and knowledge how will your children make anything worthwhile?".

However it's important to think about what was being taught and why. I went to a technical school, most pupils went on to apprenticeships in the local dockyard or the engineering factories, but the dockyard closed, the engineering factories moved, so having a curriculum focusing on gaining an engineering or working apprenticeship became less vital.

As young teacher I had a fight with the inspectors to broaden the woodworking tools to reflect not just a career but what the majority of people were using them for (which at that time was DIY, but there seems little of that nowadays).

I kept up to date, taught myself electronics so I could teach it, went on courses to learn computer programming so I could also teach that, but made sure I retained my roots working in wood and metal.

Following on from another contribution in this thread about educational standards at degree level, I taught in a college that wanted to be a university. I clearly remember a meeting where we had to go through the students' grades to try to find some we could give honours to, it was a struggle because many of us knew the students abilities and the work they produced were not up to the level we had to show when we gained our degrees. The head of department was pleading with us to add a few marks to the best students results as the number of high class degrees were one of the criteria for gaining university status. Why was it a struggle? Because the entry standards were too low to keep up the number of students and the money they generated for the college.
 
However it's important to think about what was being taught and why. I went to a technical school, most pupils went on to apprenticeships in the local dockyard or the engineering factories, but the dockyard closed, the engineering factories moved, so having a curriculum focusing on gaining an engineering or working apprenticeship became less vital.

I think there is a bigger impact from so many industries closing like the dockyards and factories, people who worked in these enviroments had a different outlook on things and could use there hands. They built bikes, go carts and dolls houses for their kids, the kids picked this up and it helped direct them. I can remember my dad who worked for a large engineering company in East London fixing my bike, helping me build models and I got involved when he decoked the old car or repaired the lawn mower so I started taking a big interest in how things worked and that quest for knowledge was planted. Being taken to the science musuem at Kensington just got me more interested in engineering and science, going to wanstead flats to see the model planes and boats on sunday morning all gave me the interest to pursue a career in engineering that set me up for life.

So if the parents don't have this working life then they cannot pass on the interest and I think it all becomes mundane with nothing giving the kids a buzz, it cannot be the same just buying something as actually collecting the parts and putting it together yourself which I suppose were life skills.
 
Perhaps the reason there is a decline is that for a newcomer they will see all the tube junk about how to use new expensive tools and machines and think they have to buy them to be able to make things.
Hobby woodworking is going down, or has gone down, the same consumerist path that other hobbies have. In the 60s you could buy and old motorbike or scooter wear any jacket and gloves and ride off (although s Parker or leather jacket were a necessity really -but the parkers were American government surplus, the leather jackets might also be secondhand). Now you pay as much for a motorbike as a cheap car, then pay for the fancy clothes that at are a "must" with knee sliders and armament, preferable made by the currently fashionable companies. Take up angling and instead of a reasonably cheap rod and reel you need special clothes, Rods that cost hundreds, a trolley for all the kit.
So how much do people looking at hobby woodworking need to pay out, not just a tenon saw, a few chisels, a mallet, guages, rule and a plane. A thread last week was talking of £1000. Which could I afford, a hobby or school uniform for the kids?
 
I think the word is fashion, for decades we have not believed in unicorns or the fairies at the bottom of the garden but for some reason many have been hoodwinked by the terms fashion and designer which are just as fictitious, if they stopped and thought about it they would realise that everything has to have some level of design input. I am always amazed at why some people will spend a fortune on some old trainers just because of a name, just like our woodworking machinery it all comes from a few factories but in different guises so someone is really milking it.
 
A mention of dockyards made me think of my b.i.l. He did his apprenticeship in Devonport. I remember his telling me that he'd been an auction of a ship's joiner's tools at his retirement. It was customary to pay top whack for the retiring man's tools, it was a bonus for wife in his retirement. My b.i.l. bought some of the man's THIRD set, which was better than most of his existing tools.
 
Is that because of Sloyd? Sounds brilliant!
Yes and no. Slöjd as a school subject (the grand child of educational sloyd) differs from Slöjd in the meaning of traditional vernacular handicraft (everything from weaving and embroidery to turning and blacksmithing). Slöjd as a school subject is still mandatory and the fact that everyone gets to try making things in wood of course helps. There has always been an infrastructure with Hemslöjden (which in english has the very ponderous name National Association of Swedish Handicraft Societies) organising courses, education and other activities all over the country. They also issue a beautiful magazine. There is also one of the main factors, that the barriers to entry is very low, you do not need much equipment or space to start making beautiful and useful things. Just like knitting, (which also is slöjd). There are also no wars on forums on which brand of power tools are the best etc. The atmosphere is very allowing and generous for people of all ages and level of knowledge in my experience.

It think people will always have an urge to make things. I am certain that you can find this urge among young people in the UK as well. You just need to know where to look.
 
I find this thread fascinating so many posts that reflect my thinking's not just in the decline of woodworking but the general demise of standards . Every thing today seems to matter what fashion you follow, how much money you earn /have that doesn't make you a better person just puts you one step closer to a failure then a problem coping when it's gone
 
Life is Politics. 😀
Mainly to people who have no other life but Politics. Personally I can happily not think about politics all day long. Unfortunately someone or other will inevitably try to push their tribal view into any topic, which inevitably results in a whang measuring contest between a usual set of protagonists with absolutely no chance of either tribe seeing one iota of the other tribes view point. Political debate as far as I can see is only about one tribe wanting to win over another tribe, not compromising or reaching agreement. Politics is probably the least effective, least interesting topic there is. If it’s your life I do feel sorry for you.

There you go, look what political discussion has done. It’s resulted in yet another off topic post.
 
Mainly to people who have no other life but Politics. Personally I can happily not think about politics all day long. Unfortunately someone or other will inevitably try to push their tribal view into any topic, which inevitably results in a whang measuring contest between a usual set of protagonists with absolutely no chance of either tribe seeing one iota of the other tribes view point. Political debate as far as I can see is only about one tribe wanting to win over another tribe, not compromising or reaching agreement. Politics is probably the least effective, least interesting topic there is. If it’s your life I do feel sorry for you.

There you go, look what political discussion has done. It’s resulted in yet another off topic post.
If topics come up which I'm not interested in I don't read them. I certainly wouldn't bother writing in and explaining why I'm not interested; why bother? I'd be at it all day and nobody would find that interesting either!
 
I certainly wouldn't bother writing in and explaining why I'm not interested; why bother?
Because it seems some people live for politics and think it is a great addition to any topic. They obviously don’t know that some people have absolutely no interest in the topic and are here for the workshop discussion.
As others have pointed out starting threads about politics is fine, there is even a sub forum for heated debate.

Plus I’m on work travel and my meeting just got shifted out by an hour so typing here stops me eating a second breakfast.
 
Perhaps this should be a new thread but I think it links in quite well
There are members on here with some just starting out and others quite long in the tooth. Fashion has been quoted a an influence.
The only TV programme I willingly watch is "The Repair Shop", I love the way they hold a genuine passion for their work and a love for the materials they work in.

Perhaps one of the reasons people don't have practical hobbies is all the crap TV shows where someone with a flat cap find junk (or perhaps a quality item) and another flat cap person turns it into something that looks awful and the show presenters claim will sell for a crazy amount. Upcycling I think it is genetically called, stream punk being even worse. The theme seems to be to find a nice cabinet and paint it with chalk paint to make it look like it has been in a shed for 20 years following a disastrous attempt by a child to paint it, or find a metal stand, perhaps a metal pallet, stick a rough lump of wood on top and call it a table.

So a question for the masses here, do you know anyone who likes upcycled stuff?
 
I was interested to read on one post about their father replacing the draft'y Crital windows, most planning authorities in this day will not allow Crital windows to be replaced, they seem to think they are heritage items, go figure.
 
Perhaps this should be a new thread but I think it links in quite well
There are members on here with some just starting out and others quite long in the tooth. Fashion has been quoted a an influence.
The only TV programme I willingly watch is "The Repair Shop", I love the way they hold a genuine passion for their work and a love for the materials they work in.

Perhaps one of the reasons people don't have practical hobbies is all the rubbish TV shows where someone with a flat cap find junk (or perhaps a quality item) and another flat cap person turns it into something that looks awful and the show presenters claim will sell for a crazy amount. Upcycling I think it is genetically called, stream punk being even worse. The theme seems to be to find a nice cabinet and paint it with chalk paint to make it look like it has been in a shed for 20 years following a disastrous attempt by a child to paint it, or find a metal stand, perhaps a metal pallet, stick a rough lump of wood on top and call it a table.

So a question for the masses here, do you know anyone who likes upcycled stuff?
Alas I have a wife and four daughters who all like a ‘nice’ up cycled item. They actually see it as saving the planet. Yes a separate thread might be an interesting read.
 
Perhaps this should be a new thread but I think it links in quite well
There are members on here with some just starting out and others quite long in the tooth. Fashion has been quoted a an influence.
The only TV programme I willingly watch is "The Repair Shop", I love the way they hold a genuine passion for their work and a love for the materials they work in.

Perhaps one of the reasons people don't have practical hobbies is all the rubbish TV shows where someone with a flat cap find junk (or perhaps a quality item) and another flat cap person turns it into something that looks awful and the show presenters claim will sell for a crazy amount. Upcycling I think it is genetically called, stream punk being even worse. The theme seems to be to find a nice cabinet and paint it with chalk paint to make it look like it has been in a shed for 20 years following a disastrous attempt by a child to paint it, or find a metal stand, perhaps a metal pallet, stick a rough lump of wood on top and call it a table.

So a question for the masses here, do you know anyone who likes upcycled stuff?

I've nothing against the principle of up-cycling. If done well, it ticks many of the right boxes.

The trouble is, to my eyes, most up-cycling is some where between naff and hideous and I wouldn't want to be given it, let alone have to pay for it.

Luckily, my wife shares my sentiment as well.
 
Aah, but I don't buy it as a general rule.
It's an observation made whilst looking at the tat stuff available, and I often
feel quite offended that some berk somewhere thinks I am really that stupid.
Having said that, there are times where we struggle to avoid it, such as
looking to buy a new car, for example.
But, in general, I'm firmly in that camp of paying 2/3/4 times the price and
obtaining a thing which has some semblance of quality about it.
My wife buys it!
She wants it yesterday so IKEA it is!🤣🤣
Alas I have a wife and four daughters who all like a ‘nice’ up cycled item. They actually see it as saving the planet. Yes a separate thread might be an interesting read.

Up cycling fine so long as it doesn't have dovetails!!
 
I think it may have started years ago when woodworking was removed from the national curriculum , As a child at school I loved woodworking classes even if what I made was somewhat err well err.
I can't say the Newark show today was full of young people , Most were like me in their senior years.
I did woodwork O level and A level at school. Of course some years later A level was dropped and a lot of the woodwork machinery like lathe, planer, circular saws etc. were ripped out of schools. Another problem is houses (rabbit hutches) built in recent years have hardly any garden space to put a workshop.
 
A couple of thoughts to add to this very interesting thread:

I am a little more positive. I believe that there is a huge underlying desire to work with wood in many people. I am lucky enough to teach beginners hand tool woodwork (this is not meant to be an advert) so I get a regular stream of men and women of all ages who want to learn. Whilst my core demographic is older whiter males I am getting more and more younger, less male and less white people coming along.

When we do introductions at the start of the courses, so many people say that they "just really love wood" They want to use it to make things for their homes and nearly all say that their day job is so "hands-off" - ie at a laptop or telephone - that they are almost aching to do something tangible and physical.

But - nearly everyone says that they found it hard to get started. The internet is great in many ways but its is quite hard to get started on your own in a positive way without a sturdy bench, sharp plane and sharp chisel; also there are so few places you can learn. When I was little (I am 56)
many secondary schools ran evening classes - which indeed my dad who trained me - taught at. Locally to me Leeds College closed its furniture making courses and evening classes.

I think the good news is that whilst technology diverts away from some activities, it is also starting to push people into more practical activities - sewing, gardening, cooking woodwork - both as they see examples of what they would like to be doing and the fact that hours on a laptop or phone can leave you feeling just a bit empty. Also the growth of hack/maker spaces means that more people are close to a local resource which has some useful kit and a space in which to use it for not that much money. The local Otley maker space is very popular and great value.

I've recently moved into a new workshop (my old place which was Chris Tribe's in Ilkley was sold to property developers!!) and so far the investment is really paying off as I am booked several months in advance. I love it when, over the weekend, a relative beginner is "turned on" to hand tools - you can just see it in their eyes!

When I went to the last Harrogate show I felt like I was one of the youngsters at the age of 56 - but I really think this is going to change. Onwards and upwards!.

Shoot me down!
 
A couple of thoughts to add to this very interesting thread:

I am a little more positive. I believe that there is a huge underlying desire to work with wood in many people. I am lucky enough to teach beginners hand tool woodwork (this is not meant to be an advert) so I get a regular stream of men and women of all ages who want to learn. Whilst my core demographic is older whiter males I am getting more and more younger, less male and less white people coming along.

When we do introductions at the start of the courses, so many people say that they "just really love wood" They want to use it to make things for their homes and nearly all say that their day job is so "hands-off" - ie at a laptop or telephone - that they are almost aching to do something tangible and physical.

But - nearly everyone says that they found it hard to get started. The internet is great in many ways but its is quite hard to get started on your own in a positive way without a sturdy bench, sharp plane and sharp chisel; also there are so few places you can learn. When I was little (I am 56)
many secondary schools ran evening classes - which indeed my dad who trained me - taught at. Locally to me Leeds College closed its furniture making courses and evening classes.

I think the good news is that whilst technology diverts away from some activities, it is also starting to push people into more practical activities - sewing, gardening, cooking woodwork - both as they see examples of what they would like to be doing and the fact that hours on a laptop or phone can leave you feeling just a bit empty. Also the growth of hack/maker spaces means that more people are close to a local resource which has some useful kit and a space in which to use it for not that much money. The local Otley maker space is very popular and great value.

I've recently moved into a new workshop (my old place which was Chris Tribe's in Ilkley was sold to property developers!!) and so far the investment is really paying off as I am booked several months in advance. I love it when, over the weekend, a relative beginner is "turned on" to hand tools - you can just see it in their eyes!

When I went to the last Harrogate show I felt like I was one of the youngsters at the age of 56 - but I really think this is going to change. Onwards and upwards!.

Shoot me down!

I would have thought with the advent of YouTube woodworking as a hobby has probably never been so popular. However, as every year passes there are less and less full time furniture makers etc., a trend also seen in the USA. All these tool manufacturers that are going hammer & tongs certainly aren’t being kept in business by the pro’s.

But, it’s something that is seen across the skilled trades, woodwork/carpentry doesn’t exist in isolation. Most decent plumbers are over 50 these days. I started my working life in the mid 90’s with British Gas, changed to commercial work, my employer paid me through my electrical qualifications, so I see plenty of apprentices, but genuinely enthusiastic ones can be thin on the ground, and they’ve never got their phone out of their hand for more than 2 minutes.

I don’t think there’s any lack of interest in it, just not the opportunities to learn properly, as others have said. How many people buy a lathe, usually the wrong one, never have any tuition, have a go for a few months, don’t get past the initial learning curve, rapidly get disenchanted, then everything gets relegated to the back of the shed? Must be plenty of people trying it though as there’s more machinery on the marked aimed at hobbyist’s than ever before. If they could just get past that first 6 months or so they’d really discover the enjoyment of it, same as furniture making.

Maybe that’s another YouTube channel waiting to be set up. One that’s dedicated to that learning curve and speaks to people in language they’ll understand because of the position they are in, rather than people just turning flashy bowls, or making anything else for that matter. Probably why Paul Sellers has done so well.
 
i'm recently into all this, only since summer when my mother in law got ill and i needed some headspace. i started by adjusting a door that was scraping the floor. now i'm resawing and dimensioning my own timber (with varying success). my grandad was a carpenter and i do remember summers at his spent mainly it seems measuring stuff and being told off. but what that did instil was a basic appreciation for working with natural material. but i only appreciated this recently.

ffwd a few decades and now I'm well into a completely unrelated profession (that still dictates 'measure twice cut once') and 6 months ago only had a no4 which he had given me when i was 12, a saw and an old drill!

I'm completely hooked and am trying to self-teach the basics before I start tackling the projects i've promised the wifey. for now it's all about putting new skills into practice with the workshop itself - it's a a small workshop by US standards but even up here, in the desolate highlands there are others who have come out of the woodwork and revealed themselves to be hardline handtool woodworkers. this is a beautiful thing.

as iron sharpens iron and so forth...

i've had a great pleasure reading all these stories and this thread has been great at forcing a little self-reflection. it would be interesting to see the average demographic of a forumite - not that it really matters - but i would imagine folk fall into two main camps - the professional woodworker / craftsman and the hobbyist

in my professional life i am often teaching others, trying to motivate groups of people and pouring energy into helping others - but here i can disappear into a cloud of possibilities, only limited by the ability to problem solve and measure things accurately. I'm on this steep climb through mistakes and setbacks and occasionally making something / acheiving something i like the look of.

i've only recently joined up here but in these few weeks i've learnt so much more than i could ever hope to try and do myself. so i don't think as a hobby it's in decline, i just think the sort of people who pursue it as a hobby are probably the kind of people who end up on forums like these. judging from the activity and posts there's no short supply of talent, both pro and lay.

so thanks, all!
 
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