why is hobby woodworking in decline?

[Keith Cocker]

Life is Politics.

 

[imageel]

Lots written on this thread chimes with me as one born in the 50's the youngest of 4, so I remember my dad making a lot of stuff around the house so as to 'make do'
When my own kids were still in diapers my day job was in IT in London and in my spare time I was making window frames to replace the cold and draughty Crittall ones, and later an entire kitchen with ply body and face framed in oak, so I guess to some degree I'm following in my fathers footsteps.
In that period we used to visit a fantastic show 'Art in Action' at Perrywood Oxfordshire where art in all its forms was displayed with lots of practicals and even lessons for some and aside from the high quality of the works on display the great thing about it was the interaction with other like minded folk and with the craftsmen enthusiastically discussing their craft and techniques.
So I agree whilst YouTube gives you access to a broad range of skills and perhaps ideas from the comfort of your armchair it pales in comparison to a day interacting with public and artists with the opportunity to smell, touch and appreciate 1st hand a broad range of practical skills.
Now retired I still make a lot and tinker on my workshop and even volunteer via a charity to teach folks practical skills however have had no success whatsoever in getting traction to start a 'men's shed' with them since they seem to get totally bogged down with officialdom, decisions by committee etc often run by staff with little to no idea as to the practicalities involved.
So all in all a sad state of affairs for all I think as all across the age spectrum lose out on the likely therapeutic and life affirming benefits from the human interaction, the process of acquiring new skills, and the self esteem gained from having produced something whatever the end product may be,,,

 

[Jameshow]

Lots written on this thread chimes with me as one born in the 50's the youngest of 4, so I remember my dad making a lot of stuff around the house so as to 'make do'
When my own kids were still in diapers my day job was in IT in London and in my spare time I was making window frames to replace the cold and draughty Crittall ones, and later an entire kitchen with ply body and face framed in oak, so I guess to some degree I'm following in my fathers footsteps.
In that period we used to visit a fantastic show 'Art in Action' at Perrywood Oxfordshire where art in all its forms was displayed with lots of practicals and even lessons for some and aside from the high quality of the works on display the great thing about it was the interaction with other like minded folk and with the craftsmen enthusiastically discussing their craft and techniques.
So I agree whilst YouTube gives you access to a broad range of skills and perhaps ideas from the comfort of your armchair it pales in comparison to a day interacting with public and artists with the opportunity to smell, touch and appreciate 1st hand a broad range of practical skills.
Now retired I still make a lot and tinker on my workshop and even volunteer via a charity to teach folks practical skills however have had no success whatsoever in getting traction to start a 'men's shed' with them since they seem to get totally bogged down with officialdom, decisions by committee etc often run by staff with little to no idea as to the practicalities involved.
So all in all a sad state of affairs for all I think as all across the age spectrum lose out on the likely therapeutic and life affirming benefits from the human interaction, the process of acquiring new skills, and the self esteem gained from having produced something whatever the end product may be,,,

Re men's shed just go it alone, put posters up in drs, pharmacy, pubs, library, coop, etc announcing a meeting down the community centre, even the drs surgery.
Speak to the surgery social prescriber they will be on board and refer clients to you.

 

[MikeK]

If you want to start a political thread, start one.

But do it somewhere else.

 

[Spectric]

I think a lot of people don't desire a house full of traditional wooden furniture anymore

Or cannot afford it.

There is not one person out of the 60 odd people that work there that knows how to work with wood, ie joints etc, not one of them is interested in learning either. I am one of the oldest people there, their pass times are either drugs, video games or going out on the lash and moaning that they have no money two weeks into the month,

That is what automation and modern machinery is designed for, removal of any skill and employ cheaper labour whilst delivering a product that delivers nothing more than perceived quality at a price you can shift it.

 

[Daniel2]

Or cannot afford it.



That is what automation and modern machinery is designed for, removal of any skill and employ cheaper labour whilst delivering a product that delivers nothing more than perceived quality at a price you can shift it.

I'm increasingly getting the impression that we're even compromising on the
perceived quality these days. The standard of stuff available for purchase has
become quite blatant about it being tat, even before you've bought it.

 

[Jacob]

I'm increasingly getting the impression that we're even compromising on the
perceived quality these days. The standard of stuff available for purchase has
become quite blatant about it being tat, even before you've bought it.

You don't have to buy it you know!
Maybe we should have something like the wartime utility mark standard. Stuff costing twice as much but lasting tens times longer. Some of it still around 70 years on!
Cheap tat doesn't save labour - it needs replacing sooner and employs more people.

 

[Daniel2]

You don't have to buy it you know!
Maybe we should have something like the wartime utility mark standard. Stuff costing twice as much but lasting tens times longer. Some of it still around 70 years on!
Cheap tat doesn't save labour - it needs replacing sooner and employs more people.

Aah, but I don't buy it as a general rule.
It's an observation made whilst looking at the tat stuff available, and I often
feel quite offended that some berk somewhere thinks I am really that stupid.
Having said that, there are times where we struggle to avoid it, such as
looking to buy a new car, for example.
But, in general, I'm firmly in that camp of paying 2/3/4 times the price and
obtaining a thing which has some semblance of quality about it.

 

[seanf]

I think a lot of people don't desire a house full of traditional wooden furniture anymore

This is 100% correct and also why auctions and charity furniture schemes are awash with “brown” furniture. Yes it will likely be much better quality, better made and last for decades but it is just not what the average consumer wants. They want relatively low priced furniture that can be swapped and changed on a whim. When I was a kid (I'm 40 now) you would move items around to give your house a freshen up, now people will restyle every few years and don't want to spend thousands on something they don't intend to keep

Sean

 

[ian33a]

When I was at school woodwork was a craft subject where the teachers were severe and the results unimpressive (especially mine). If you really wanted to pursue a career in woodwork you did so by way of an apprenticeship - once you left school. Woodworking was one of those subject that most people didn't do through choice.

In the years which followed, craft subjects morphed into design technology with more emphasis upon design than physical production. As computer control started to take centre stage everyone began to let machines convert their designs into physical things. Nobody needed to use a saw or a drill anymore. Anyway, it was considered dirty and below many people. Programming a computer to design wonderful stuff was cool (even if it wasn't proper computer programming).

Fast forward further and many people now rent or live in flats. No chance to have a garage or a tool shed. Even if they have a small house with a shed, it's full of cheap garden tools, garden tables and packing boxes that really should have gone to the recycling centre long ago.

What was in those packing boxes? Stuff that people bought at B and Q or Wayfair or Ikea or a host of other retail sheds. I've even questioned making stuff myself more often than not. So I have those packing boxes too. Can I be bothered to make something when I can buy what I need and use my time for something else, even if it is typing on woodwork forums? Often no, a few clicks on a web page and it arrives, built, cheaper than I could make it, and fit for purpose while I feel I want it.

I guess I am lucky in that I have more tools than many people younger than me, or even older than me, could only dream of owning. Do I use them all? No. And here's another problem, for people who wish to do wood working, it isn't just the wood or the space, it's the cost of buying the tools, learning how to use them and gaining confidence to not chop off their fingers. Or, in my case, being bothered to use my spare time to make "whatever".

Spare time for youngsters is scarce. There are too many other important things to fill up their time: Tik-Tok, Instagram, Netflix, eating out, going on holidays, chasing that top job. Woodworking is a very low priority to the majority of the population - the investment is too high and it requires manual skill, which too many people simply have no hope of or interest in gaining.

Anyway, timber is pretty expensive now!

 

[Fergie 307]

Seems to me that one of the biggest problem is our kids admiration for "influencers" who enjoy a fantastic lifestyle without really doing anything of any benefit to anyone. It never ceased to amaze me how completely clueless so many people are nowadays when it comes to anything remotely practical, they just don't seem to see it as a desirable thing to know how to do stuff or fix things around the house. In my case practical skills evolved through being skint. Years ago I couldn't afford to pay someone to do something, so I learned to do it myself. Now I still do it because, although I am wealthy enough to pay someone, I'd rather do it myself and spend the money on something more interesting.

 

[Jorny]

Here in Sweden the perspective is quite different. there is a huge interest in traditional vernacular woodworking crafts. There is a new generation craftspeople who have made a name for them selves and many of them are women. Courses get booked full quickly and there are long delivery times on some tools because tool smiths can't keep up with demand.

This is of course not furniture maning with machinery, a dedicated shop and lots of tools. This is the kind of woodworking where the only kit you need to get started is a basic mora knife and a piece of wood.

 

[Apps]

A very intersting thread, for my 2 pence worth I was born in the late 60's we did have a few lessons in woodwork, metalwork, sewing and even cooking at the secondary modern schools I went to. There was never enough to actually learn how to do anything but at least there was an attempt at raising an interest.

After leaving school I ended up buying a house and getting married. Working in the dreaded, public sector wages were not great and shift work was constant, together with study for exams to move up the grease covered pole. We had to repair or do it ourselves, we simply could not afford to get trades people in.

Hobbies were not something we really had, then retirement arrived together with covid and the desire to create and make became overwelming and I started my wood hacking. I am no woodworker or turner but Im happy to play in my "workshop" trying to make stuff and maybe improving.

Whilst neither of my kids are home owners yet, I know they have the confidence to give it a go from having seen me try and fail and sometimes not.

The reality is many young adults have a hell of a lot on their plates these days, the pressures to pass exams and get degrees and then get a job and the professional qualifications to do the job are huge. The debt that my kids left uni with is frightening in comparison to my youth, one has £40K+ and the other £65k+ in student debit, the interest arrangements mean neither will ever pay it off, despite being in professions within the NHS any parent would be proud of.

So why are there not more young folks taking up wood bashing? give 'em time I say, when they get a house and have a NEED, and when they get older and maybe have the time, the paitence and cash, I think they will take up such past times.

The wheel will turn and people will come forward much as I did in later life.

 

[pe2dave]

What of the 'DIYer' as apposed to the wood worker, where wood is a common material readily available.
I can't afford X (initially furniture) so I make one.
Same way I 'fix' the sagging door / leaking tap.
I wonder how many on this forum are more DIY than woodworker?

 

[Jacob]

Who says it is in decline? You'd have to snoop around a lot of sheds to know this, one way or the other.

 

[Doris]

This decline is in everything and not just woodworking, we are now a throwaway society where quality is not important as we don't have high expectations and seem to be ruled by advertising and marketing aimed at a process of continual sales by presenting us with the latest so called fad or technology.

This

and also 3D printers

 

[Corset]

I work in the student sector, i dont think any of this is in decline. Its just an ebb and flo. sometimes crafts are popular sometimes not. the reality is wood is expensive and ready made stuff from abroad in chipboard is pretty cheap. That will change as the reality of global warming on throw away culture takes effect, trade wars with china etc. As the trades continue to suffer lack of new people people will have to step up. Frankly its a golden time with you tube, you can learn from fantastic craftpeople online for free. When i started i had no woodwork at school and only books to learn from. suffise to say a lot of mistakes were made. In my experience a lot of yound people will just go to you tube and teach themselves. Some will stick at it some wont thats life.
I persoanlly think more people are getting into crafts but they dont always want to drive out to a show. I enjoyed newark but the format needs to change to a half demos and half sales. Too much turning for me, lack of trad demos which are always interestings (axes etc). But i dont turn. However i also understand that its hard to make priofitable. I went to the makers show at the NEC and it was loads of fun. Every stand had stuff my kids could do and they got a free boc from RYobi that they loved. CNC a pencil etc they were really inspired... so i think you have to weigh up longevity versus appealing to older craft people that have seen it all and are bit cynical

 

[Jacob]

Here in Sweden the perspective is quite different. there is a huge interest in traditional vernacular woodworking crafts. There is a new generation craftspeople who have made a name for them selves and many of them are women. Courses get booked full quickly and there are long delivery times on some tools because tool smiths can't keep up with demand.

This is of course not furniture maning with machinery, a dedicated shop and lots of tools. This is the kind of woodworking where the only kit you need to get started is a basic mora knife and a piece of wood.

Is that because of Sloyd? Sounds brilliant!

 

[Mick p]

Wow, beautifully written

What a fabulous description of how schooling employment rest and relaxation have changed in a few decades very well done Sir

 

[Jacob]

I don't quite understand why anyone thought they could teach anything to children aged 16 - 18 when they couldn't when they were between 4 and 16.

Yes they could all be brain surgeons at 16 if they just pulled their fingers out.