Adam W.
A Major Clanger
In some towns in Denmark they have evening/weekend workshops where the youngsters can go to learn craft skills, so instead of going to football they can go to carpentry.
why is hobby woodworking in decline?
- Thread starter johnnyb
- Start date
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Exhibitions aren’t as important as they used to be. Fifty years ago I went to exhibitions to find out what was available. Nowadays I can see it on the internet, and buy it for delivery. My main reason for going to Newark was to see a selection of lathe chucks, talk about them, and come home with one. Ditto negative rake scrapers. Mission accomplished.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Good thread
Technology has in many ways ruined life, as well as improving it. Too much screen time changes the way kids brains work and is linked to challenging behaviour ( i found this researching possible causes for our middle child, whos 6, and has developed an attitude and behavioural problem )
Im fully guilty of too much phone time. I use it for work, emails, research, talking to you lot, shopping, music etc. Kids see that and think it's how life should be.....
Whatever you manage to buy, there'll always be the next thing you want / 'need'.... im guilty of this one too
I work a lot, do the family bit on sundays and I now have no me time.... no hobbies apart from work.
I remembered when i was younger and had a nitro rc car. I had a look on the net at rc cars and bought a brushless 4x4 beetle thing to be fair, its pretty damn quick.
Anyway, its too quick for the kids, so i bought them a couple of much cheaper cars, same brand.... they're pretty much as quick!!!
Anyway, the point is, the kids cars were 60 quid each. Back when i was a kid, a quick rc was £150 plus, so they are in comparison, cheaper now.
Of course these days there's so many different things to take your money! A mobile phone contract, broadband etc are all now normal expenses.
Yes.... im a zombie right now
Technology has in many ways ruined life, as well as improving it. Too much screen time changes the way kids brains work and is linked to challenging behaviour ( i found this researching possible causes for our middle child, whos 6, and has developed an attitude and behavioural problem )
Im fully guilty of too much phone time. I use it for work, emails, research, talking to you lot, shopping, music etc. Kids see that and think it's how life should be.....
Yep, we have a small 14 year old house. Mind you, my dad and his 2 sisters grew up in a 2 bedroom terraced house of similar size.
Yep and the effects wear off very quickly. Partly because we want more and partly because it's meaningless. I honestly believe the increase in mental health problems are linked to the way we expect to live now.
Whatever you manage to buy, there'll always be the next thing you want / 'need'.... im guilty of this one too
I was talking to a howdens delivery driver about this yesterday....
I work a lot, do the family bit on sundays and I now have no me time.... no hobbies apart from work.
I remembered when i was younger and had a nitro rc car. I had a look on the net at rc cars and bought a brushless 4x4 beetle thing
to be fair, its pretty damn quick.Anyway, its too quick for the kids, so i bought them a couple of much cheaper cars, same brand.... they're pretty much as quick!!!
Anyway, the point is, the kids cars were 60 quid each. Back when i was a kid, a quick rc was £150 plus, so they are in comparison, cheaper now.
Of course these days there's so many different things to take your money! A mobile phone contract, broadband etc are all now normal expenses.
The fact they are mobile makes them a bigger problem, I only use a Pc and have no intention of taking it anywhere with me. That means I have separation and only have screen time when I go to the pc and freedom at all other times.
Seascaper
Established Member
Hello,
When you see what people pay for old chisels on a Bay I find this difficult to believe.
Regards
I think it may have started years ago when woodworking was removed from the national curriculum , As a child at school I loved woodworking classes even if what I made was somewhat err well err.
I can't say the Newark show today was full of young people , Most were like me in their senior years.
I can't say the Newark show today was full of young people , Most were like me in their senior years.
@Yorkieguy i do agree with you but I would distinguish some careers as retaining an apprentice-esque approach alongside academic adulation e.g medicine, nursing, physio - and the career progression is based on both experience and exams. I think public servants including NHS staff are comparitively underpaid when you consider how long, how arduous it takes to get to a certain point E.g A GP =(5yrs med school + 2yrs foundation (old house jobs) + 3yrs GP training. A lot of specialties longer still.
I do think we undervalue both humility and delayed gratification in our society and give credit to those who can appeal to the masses and have a social aptitude /desire to seek attention. I think a journey through hardship to reach a place of security in life can form a strong foundation for success.
I do think we undervalue both humility and delayed gratification in our society and give credit to those who can appeal to the masses and have a social aptitude /desire to seek attention. I think a journey through hardship to reach a place of security in life can form a strong foundation for success.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
As others have noted the society in which we no live has changed profoundly in the 70 years I have been around.
Employment in manufacturing and construction accounted for ~37% of jobs in 1950 - now ~15%. The services sector now dominates and traditional apprenticeships mostly gone.
In the 1960s Barry Bucknell (some may remember) popularised DIY "improvement". Ikea didn't exist. The choice for many/most would have been to develop practical skills or go without. Like many on this forum (I suspect) I could swap out a clutch at the age of 18 and built my first kitchen age 22.
There are now an infinite number of digital distractions, and cheap affordable alternatives making DIY based hobbies optional rather than useful.
I also wonder when the concept of a "hobby" became a reality (save for the wealthy) - in 1950 the average working week was 48 hours (now 37). Spare time was no doubt mainly spent on household "chores" - there would be limited time or money available for much else.
Woodworking has become an increasingly expensive hobby - both wood and machinery which it now seems necessary to buy. We lose sight of the fact that craftsmen of old managed without power tools, and a relatively limited range of hand tools.
Houses are typically getting smaller, often with gardens barely the size of a small shed. We worry about noisy machines upsetting the neighbours where once weekends were home to a cacophony of Black and Deckers and hammers.
I enjoy woodworking and DIY - the creative effort and satisfaction of finding solutions to practical problems. Sadly I am unsurprised that interest in a woodworking hobby is in decline - most in their formative years simply get no exposure to practical skills.
Employment in manufacturing and construction accounted for ~37% of jobs in 1950 - now ~15%. The services sector now dominates and traditional apprenticeships mostly gone.
In the 1960s Barry Bucknell (some may remember) popularised DIY "improvement". Ikea didn't exist. The choice for many/most would have been to develop practical skills or go without. Like many on this forum (I suspect) I could swap out a clutch at the age of 18 and built my first kitchen age 22.
There are now an infinite number of digital distractions, and cheap affordable alternatives making DIY based hobbies optional rather than useful.
I also wonder when the concept of a "hobby" became a reality (save for the wealthy) - in 1950 the average working week was 48 hours (now 37). Spare time was no doubt mainly spent on household "chores" - there would be limited time or money available for much else.
Woodworking has become an increasingly expensive hobby - both wood and machinery which it now seems necessary to buy. We lose sight of the fact that craftsmen of old managed without power tools, and a relatively limited range of hand tools.
Houses are typically getting smaller, often with gardens barely the size of a small shed. We worry about noisy machines upsetting the neighbours where once weekends were home to a cacophony of Black and Deckers and hammers.
I enjoy woodworking and DIY - the creative effort and satisfaction of finding solutions to practical problems. Sadly I am unsurprised that interest in a woodworking hobby is in decline - most in their formative years simply get no exposure to practical skills.
Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)
Established Member
At the risk of being simplistic (my wife says it is just about having less time, for example, husbands need to share more home duties with their wives). Add the following to a multitude of factors ...
It does not surprise me that hobby woodworking is largely the domain of an older generation (say, 40 upwards). Younger than that, and one may not yet be ready for it from an emotional level.
My day job is a clinical psychologist specialising in the neurodevelopment area. This includes a lot of ADHD. Now I am not going to blame ADHD on the environment - although I do view the environment as influencing the dramatic rise in numbers over the years. But there is something present here which I view as relevant.
It also needs to be noted that I am 73, and I grew up in an age before technology dominated lives. I was 25 years old before I saw a TV set. My childhood was school (with an expectation I would go to university and become a professional), sport at school, and playing cricket or soccer in the street with the kids next door and down the road. Movies were Saturday morning at the local cinema. Growing up, it was evident that I liked to tinker and build. I built surfboards, fixed cars, did the repairs around our home. My father was an architect, but all theory and nil idea of using tools. His joy was creating with drawings. The point here is that I (we) preferred to be hands-on as much as the kids of today, but with a different target.
Where does ADHD fit into this? One of the most common comments made to me by ADHD adults is that they feel “overwhelmed by everything … life is coming at them from every angle … overstimulated” (this creates difficulty with prioritising, which leads to procrastination and disorganisation). Children experience this as well, but cannot articulate it as well. The symptom of Hyperfocus is well known. Quite often, what began with technology-for-stimulation develops into technology-as-escape.
It is relevant to note how the home (and society) has changed over the past 100 years. 100 years ago we did not have telephones, TV, computers, loud music, music-in-the-ears, sounds of the traffic, planes flying overhead, flashing lights, everything needing to be bigger and louder to stand out …. It becomes exhausting.
I believe that one of the reactions to this has been changes in furniture design. I had a long discussion with Joel at Tools For Woodworking (online shop in the US), who blogged about it recently. One might imagine that furniture has lost its ornamentation because of a decline in furniture making skills. But there is a great deal of evidence to support that simpler furniture is a response to the need for less stimulation and less complexity at home. Minimalisation is in. Mid Century Danish furniture is back again, and I see this reflecting a need for quiet in a non-quiet world. Perhaps Ikea should be subsidised by Medicare
So it is understandable that the quiet of a workshop -away from societal demands - takes hold with an older generation, who are more affected by the pace and intrusion of life. This just comes to some earlier than others.
Regards from Perth
Derek
It does not surprise me that hobby woodworking is largely the domain of an older generation (say, 40 upwards). Younger than that, and one may not yet be ready for it from an emotional level.
My day job is a clinical psychologist specialising in the neurodevelopment area. This includes a lot of ADHD. Now I am not going to blame ADHD on the environment - although I do view the environment as influencing the dramatic rise in numbers over the years. But there is something present here which I view as relevant.
It also needs to be noted that I am 73, and I grew up in an age before technology dominated lives. I was 25 years old before I saw a TV set. My childhood was school (with an expectation I would go to university and become a professional), sport at school, and playing cricket or soccer in the street with the kids next door and down the road. Movies were Saturday morning at the local cinema. Growing up, it was evident that I liked to tinker and build. I built surfboards, fixed cars, did the repairs around our home. My father was an architect, but all theory and nil idea of using tools. His joy was creating with drawings. The point here is that I (we) preferred to be hands-on as much as the kids of today, but with a different target.
Where does ADHD fit into this? One of the most common comments made to me by ADHD adults is that they feel “overwhelmed by everything … life is coming at them from every angle … overstimulated” (this creates difficulty with prioritising, which leads to procrastination and disorganisation). Children experience this as well, but cannot articulate it as well. The symptom of Hyperfocus is well known. Quite often, what began with technology-for-stimulation develops into technology-as-escape.
It is relevant to note how the home (and society) has changed over the past 100 years. 100 years ago we did not have telephones, TV, computers, loud music, music-in-the-ears, sounds of the traffic, planes flying overhead, flashing lights, everything needing to be bigger and louder to stand out …. It becomes exhausting.
I believe that one of the reactions to this has been changes in furniture design. I had a long discussion with Joel at Tools For Woodworking (online shop in the US), who blogged about it recently. One might imagine that furniture has lost its ornamentation because of a decline in furniture making skills. But there is a great deal of evidence to support that simpler furniture is a response to the need for less stimulation and less complexity at home. Minimalisation is in. Mid Century Danish furniture is back again, and I see this reflecting a need for quiet in a non-quiet world. Perhaps Ikea should be subsidised by Medicare
So it is understandable that the quiet of a workshop -away from societal demands - takes hold with an older generation, who are more affected by the pace and intrusion of life. This just comes to some earlier than others.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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Bristol_Rob
Established Member
Wow, beautifully written
PhilipL
Established Member
Sailing is popular with schools but the average age of sailors is rising annually. Every 10 years the average age is 10 years higher.
Pigeon fanciers, bowlers, ... You name it, it is becoming the hobby of the older.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Yes, I paid £4 for one once.
Jameshow
Established Member
Interesting what our your thoughts on anxiety / autism?At the risk of being simplistic (my wife says it is just about having less time, for example, husbands need to share more home duties with their wives). Add the following to a multitude of factors ...
It does not surprise me that hobby woodworking is largely the domain of an older generation (say, 40 upwards). Younger than that, and one may not yet be ready for it from an emotional level.
My day job is a clinical psychologist specialising in the neurodevelopment area. This includes a lot of ADHD. Now I am not going to blame ADHD on the environment - although I do view the environment as influencing the dramatic rise in numbers over the years. But there is something present here which I view as relevant.
It also needs to be noted that I am 73, and I grew up in an age before technology dominated lives. I was 25 years old before I saw a TV set. My childhood was school (with an expectation I would go to university and become a professional), sport at school, and playing cricket or soccer in the street with the kids next door and down the road. Movies were Saturday morning at the local cinema. Growing up, it was evident that I liked to tinker and build. I built surfboards, fixed cars, did the repairs around our home. My father was an architect, but all theory and nil idea of using tools. His joy was creating with drawings. The point here is that I (we) preferred to be hands-on as much as the kids of today, but with a different target.
Where does ADHD fit into this? One of the most common comments made to me by ADHD adults is that they feel “overwhelmed by everything … life is coming at them from every angle … overstimulated” (this creates difficulty with prioritising, which leads to procrastination and disorganisation). Children experience this as well, but cannot articulate it as well. The symptom of Hyperfocus is well known. Quite often, what began with technology-for-stimulation develops into technology-as-escape.
It is relevant to note how the home (and society) has changed over the past 100 years. 100 years ago we did not have telephones, TV, computers, loud music, music-in-the-ears, sounds of the traffic, planes flying overhead, flashing lights, everything needing to be bigger and louder to stand out …. It becomes exhausting.
I believe that one of the reactions to this has been changes in furniture design. I had a long discussion with Joel at Tools For Woodworking (online shop in the US), who blogged about it recently. One might imagine that furniture has lost its ornamentation because of a decline in furniture making skills. But there is a great deal of evidence to support that simpler furniture is a response to the need for less stimulation and less complexity at home. Minimalisation is in. Mid Century Danish furniture is back again, and I see this reflecting a need for quiet in a non-quiet world. Perhaps Ikea should be subsidised by Medicare
So it is understandable that the quiet of a workshop -away from societal demands - takes hold with an older generation, who are more affected by the pace and intrusion of life. This just comes to some earlier than others.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I have many chaps often in there 30's whose lives are shipwrecked by anxiety and fear of doing anything. Rather than taking chances and getting out there they sit in thier flats on he computer doing nother scared of the big wide world...
I think that now, with the plethora of You-Tube videos, online suppliers and woodworking sites there is little reason to visit craft fairs/shows. I have also noticed the entry fees rising and, together with the high cost of fuel, people aren't thinking of shows as cheap days out any more. I'd be interested to hear how local woodworking clubs are faring in these modern times.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
I agrée. I was taught at school. Won the first form school prize for handicrafts as it was called. And didn’t touch a tool of hardly any kind for over 40 years but when I retired I took it up as a hobby and thoroughly enjoy it. Without that grounding at school I can’t imagine that would have happened.
WoodyWoodpecker
Member
Some good points raised.
I was born in the 70s, the age when our houses were filled with not only wood, but plastics, metals and garish fabrics. I've considered myself a wannabe "woodworker" and attended the shows for few years. But, on reaching 50 I've realised the reality is, I'm not a woodworker, but one of those lesser people a "maker".
Maybe its those influences from the past. But, I don't really like things made just of real wood. I've got the Lost Art Press books, I listen to the Mortise and Tenon guys podcasts. I love that stuff from the creative aspect, but not to make it for my house. I look around at what I've made: a bathroom vanity unit from MR MDF finished in 2k anthracite lacquer, an outdoor kitchen made of aluminium, bright coloured Perspex and a polished concrete top, a cinema room with two full walls of builtins from melamine with Walnut veneer doors (very 70s) and Forbo linoleum red accent doors. An oak swing for my wife's 50th. I just started a new project of some obilisks for planters in the garden, looked at all the stuff around and ended up coming up with a design using blackened Accoya and stainless steel!
I think a lot of people don't desire a house full of traditional wooden furniture anymore. So, they wouldn't take up woodworking. I did attend Makers Central last year, and whilst not entirely my cup of tea, it was certainly a much younger audience than the woodworking shows. It's also possible that world of woodworking is now more diluted that you can make other things out of other materials and maybe interested in CNC fabrication etc and would never attend a woodworking show.
My daughter is doing Design Tech GCSA at school and most of the course is now based on client briefs, design, modelling, cad, with a small amount of practical. But, I guess the chance of a job doing practical woodworking or metalworking is very slim these days. So they focus the course on design so you could become a product designer, or engineer sat on a computer making virtual things that someone in China to make.
Maybe we've just diversified?
I was born in the 70s, the age when our houses were filled with not only wood, but plastics, metals and garish fabrics. I've considered myself a wannabe "woodworker" and attended the shows for few years. But, on reaching 50 I've realised the reality is, I'm not a woodworker, but one of those lesser people a "maker".
Maybe its those influences from the past. But, I don't really like things made just of real wood. I've got the Lost Art Press books, I listen to the Mortise and Tenon guys podcasts. I love that stuff from the creative aspect, but not to make it for my house. I look around at what I've made: a bathroom vanity unit from MR MDF finished in 2k anthracite lacquer, an outdoor kitchen made of aluminium, bright coloured Perspex and a polished concrete top, a cinema room with two full walls of builtins from melamine with Walnut veneer doors (very 70s) and Forbo linoleum red accent doors. An oak swing for my wife's 50th. I just started a new project of some obilisks for planters in the garden, looked at all the stuff around and ended up coming up with a design using blackened Accoya and stainless steel!
I think a lot of people don't desire a house full of traditional wooden furniture anymore. So, they wouldn't take up woodworking. I did attend Makers Central last year, and whilst not entirely my cup of tea, it was certainly a much younger audience than the woodworking shows. It's also possible that world of woodworking is now more diluted that you can make other things out of other materials and maybe interested in CNC fabrication etc and would never attend a woodworking show.
My daughter is doing Design Tech GCSA at school and most of the course is now based on client briefs, design, modelling, cad, with a small amount of practical. But, I guess the chance of a job doing practical woodworking or metalworking is very slim these days. So they focus the course on design so you could become a product designer, or engineer sat on a computer making virtual things that someone in China to make.
Maybe we've just diversified?
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Drifter2406
Established Member
I work in a Kitchen manufacturers, as you all know most of this stuff is made from MFC, in our firm all of our kitchens are made from this, if solid wood doors are specified they are bought in, bought in! we have a couple of million quids worth of machinery and we buy wood doors in, when it comes to any timber I get asked to make it or modify it and even bring it home to my wood shop/ Cabin to sort it and I work as the Engineer there. There is not one person out of the 60 odd people that work there that knows how to work with wood, ie joints etc, not one of them is interested in learning either. I am one of the oldest people there, their pass times are either drugs, video games or going out on the lash and moaning that they have no money two weeks into the month, I said to one of them when I was asked to Glaze a door and cut miters, "Do you want me to show you so you can do it next time"? The reply I got was "no I will forget by the time I get to do it". There is very little interest in the old fashioned crafts, and when you do make something that costs a fortune in materials you have to sell it for peanuts to get rid of it because it seems that wood is out of fashion and has been for a while, 90% of our kitchens are some sort of Grey.
Keith Cocker
Established Member
Why do you call it a bun fight when someone expresses some facts and opinions. We don’t discuss politics enough in the UK. Perhaps votes might be better informed if we did.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Because certain people always spoil threads by introducing politics into them. If you want to start a political thread, start one.
