Why do we have so many issues with software programs

[Sideways]

The irony of all this is that when I die my kids will probably grab a handful of meaningful images of their childhood and my TB of landscapes, holiday photography and wildlife images will simply disappear from the woworld.

It's more a case of helping to ward off senility until I check out from the inevitable stroke / heart attack / last thing I'd ever expect. Photographs are great for jogging your memory.

The kids have their lives on whatsapp etc but not in raw format at 80Mb an image

 

[paulrbarnard]

It's more a case of helping to ward off senility until I check out from the inevitable stroke / heart attack / last thing I'd ever expect. Photographs are great for jogging your memory.

The kids have their lives on whatsapp etc but not in raw format at 80Mb an image

I make my own frames as well so manage to combine my two hobbies.
Quite often the kids will ask me to print and frame an image and they send me a jpg they downloaded from Facebook or social somewhere and are surprised when I show them what it looks like on a computer screen rather than their phone. The A2 print they were wanting is not going to happen.

 

[Sachakins]

The newer NVMe drives are massively quicker than standard Sata3 SSD, worth alook, and prices reasonable now too.

Here's a decent quick read.
https://www.promax.com/blog/nvme-vs-ssd-speed-storage-mistakes-to-avoid

 

[akirk]

An interesting thread
I have been developing software since the 1980s and while I agree about the challenge of software that keeps updating and also agree that not everything does what is claimed on the package, the reality is that huge amounts of software are just so much more intuitive and easy to use now than 5 / 10 / 20 years ago... little examples such as uploading photos on this forum - so much easier than a forum on PHPBB3.0 or similar where you have to find an external photo hosting provider and upload first to then link etc. so I disagree that it is all negative. My business builds process based systems for our clients and we do so based on a simple premise of intuitive, easy to use, systems that give small businesses the tools normally reserved for larger businesses - software advances are great, every year there is stuff we can deliver cheaper, easier and better... Sure, not everyone needs those changes, but generally progress is good - and as mentioned above even subscription approaches such as Adobe are cheaper than the previous upgrading of each piece of software - we have several full suite licences and I have been using photoshop since version 0.98!

regarding photo storage, I think there is a lot of poor recommendations on here for the majority of people - yes, running numerous computers and software to sync files etc. or rotating disks when you remember can all work - but for the vast majority of people it is un-necessary and as likely to cause issues - pick an online data storage system and just let it get on with what it does... It is ridiculously cheap for what is offered and builds in large amounts of redundancy - we use Dropbox at a professional level which syncs bi-directionally with a Synology NAS in the office and it is superb, takes less than 5 minutes maintenance p/a and just works - it has superb built in redundancy and if something is accidentally deleted it can be easily retrieved. It is a no-brainer.

and for reference I have been a professional photographer for decades and have multiple terrabytes of photos - I also used to own the largest private collection of glass plate photos in the world (over 100,000 of them) and while it was phenomenal seeing the detail from a decent glass photo from the 1800s they were an expensive nightmare to own and preserve - digital all the way and a 3rd party back up provider - easy.

 

[paulrbarnard]

An interesting thread
I have been developing software since the 1980s and while I agree about the challenge of software that keeps updating and also agree that not everything does what is claimed on the package, the reality is that huge amounts of software are just so much more intuitive and easy to use now than 5 / 10 / 20 years ago... little examples such as uploading photos on this forum - so much easier than a forum on PHPBB3.0 or similar where you have to find an external photo hosting provider and upload first to then link etc. so I disagree that it is all negative. My business builds process based systems for our clients and we do so based on a simple premise of intuitive, easy to use, systems that give small businesses the tools normally reserved for larger businesses - software advances are great, every year there is stuff we can deliver cheaper, easier and better... Sure, not everyone needs those changes, but generally progress is good - and as mentioned above even subscription approaches such as Adobe are cheaper than the previous upgrading of each piece of software - we have several full suite licences and I have been using photoshop since version 0.98!

regarding photo storage, I think there is a lot of poor recommendations on here for the majority of people - yes, running numerous computers and software to sync files etc. or rotating disks when you remember can all work - but for the vast majority of people it is un-necessary and as likely to cause issues - pick an online data storage system and just let it get on with what it does... It is ridiculously cheap for what is offered and builds in large amounts of redundancy - we use Dropbox at a professional level which syncs bi-directionally with a Synology NAS in the office and it is superb, takes less than 5 minutes maintenance p/a and just works - it has superb built in redundancy and if something is accidentally deleted it can be easily retrieved. It is a no-brainer.

and for reference I have been a professional photographer for decades and have multiple terrabytes of photos - I also used to own the largest private collection of glass plate photos in the world (over 100,000 of them) and while it was phenomenal seeing the detail from a decent glass photo from the 1800s they were an expensive nightmare to own and preserve - digital all the way and a 3rd party back up provider - easy.

I agree with the majority of your points and definitely support the choose one and use it approach rather than do nothing.

But I have to call out Adobe. They changed the rules and went subscription and that increased the cost for the non business user. Dropbox is another example of a company that entered the market with low cost and free services who then started charging a lot once they reached volume.

I just got fed up with it all. I mentioned before about getting dumped on by Apple with .Mac, then SmugMug. Dropbox was where I moved my files after SmugMug. I simply don’t trust any of them to have my back.

 

[akirk]

I agree with the majority of your points and definitely support the choose one and use it approach rather than do nothing.

But I have to call out Adobe. They changed the rules and went subscription and that increased the cost for the non business user. Dropbox is another example of a company that entered the market with low cost and free services who then started charging a lot once they reached volume.

I just got fed up with it all. I mentioned before about getting dumped on by Apple with .Mac, then SmugMug. Dropbox was where I moved my files after SmugMug. I simply don’t trust any of them to have my back.

I think the example above suggested that Adobe upgrade costs were in fact more than the now regular subscription - either way, you can still use old stand-alone versions of their software as you can with office etc.

ref. the backups - understand that there are always going to be examples where folks have had bad experiences, but we have 100s of clients using cloud services, including many on dropbox - with zero issues... we have far far more issues from clients who use stand-alone software they have zero idea how to manage!

 

[paulrbarnard]

I think the example above suggested that Adobe upgrade costs were in fact more than the now regular subscription - either way, you can still use old stand-alone versions of their software as you can with office etc.

ref. the backups - understand that there are always going to be examples where folks have had bad experiences, but we have 100s of clients using cloud services, including many on dropbox - with zero issues... we have far far more issues from clients who use stand-alone software they have zero idea how to manage!

All at a never ending cost . Dropbox for just my images would be £16 a month (4TB). They shifted from free to paid in 2014 I think. I would have paid approaching £2000 to them in that time. Adobe shifted to subscription in 2011 and I would have paid approaching £1400 pounds on that. Subscriptions are a stealthy way for the companies to maximise their income.
I was a paid adobe user right from the very early days but I only upgraded every other or even every third iteration as the changes each release were not necessarily a must have. I was able to control my costs and decide which releases had value to me.
It seems to be the trend now though. I’ve been using Luminar for a while now along with DXO Photolab but Luminar are now moving to subscription so I’m close to reconsidering that package.

 

[akirk]

fair points - but don't forget that Adobe Software is produced for businesses - and the costs therefore are fairly insignificant...
that those not in business chose to use it is simply a recognition of how good the software is...

 

[Sideways]

The newer NVMe drives are massively quicker than standard Sata3 SSD, worth alook, and prices reasonable now too.

Here's a decent quick read.
https://www.promax.com/blog/nvme-vs-ssd-speed-storage-mistakes-to-avoid

That's interesting - the next evolution in bus speed, something that we all want and expect to see in the latest products - but the only thing of great relevance to me are the improved CRC element which may help in data integrity.
Improvements to the bus speed are really not my priority and don't affect what does matter to me - the length of time the drive will last and reliably retain my data when it spends most of it's life powered off. In fact the issue is that NVMe will contribute to making my existing kit obsolete so it will be effectively a distress purchase.

 

[Sideways]

I was a paid adobe user right from the very early days but I only upgraded every other or even every third iteration as the changes each release were not necessarily a must have. I was able to control my costs and decide which releases had value to me.

Me too.
The biggest gotchas tended to be that adobe linked support for new models of digital camera to their new software releases, so you upgraded your camera and you had to budget for the lightroom upgrade too.

 

[sploo]

All at a never ending cost . Dropbox for just my images would be £16 a month (4TB). They shifted from free to paid in 2014 I think. I would have paid approaching £2000 to them in that time. Adobe shifted to subscription in 2011 and I would have paid approaching £1400 pounds on that. Subscriptions are a stealthy way for the companies to maximise their income.
I was a paid adobe user right from the very early days but I only upgraded every other or even every third iteration as the changes each release were not necessarily a must have. I was able to control my costs and decide which releases had value to me.
It seems to be the trend now though. I’ve been using Luminar for a while now along with DXO Photolab but Luminar are now moving to subscription so I’m close to reconsidering that package.

I do agree with the dislike of subscription models. Also the "cloud" model; whereby the software can change underneath you with no possibility of you staying on a version that did what you need.

I have some of Topaz's filtering tools (e.g. DeNoise) and; at least when I last subscribed, the model was that you got updates during your subscription period, and once it expires you just stay on the most recent version you downloaded. If Adobe did that for Lightroom I'd immediately start paying; until then I'll stick on LR 6 for as long as I can.

 

[sploo]

The newer NVMe drives are massively quicker than standard Sata3 SSD, worth alook, and prices reasonable now too.

Here's a decent quick read.
https://www.promax.com/blog/nvme-vs-ssd-speed-storage-mistakes-to-avoid

The theoretical/benchmark performance difference is massive, but I've yet to see any real world scenario where NVMe drives seem to make a difference vs SATA SSDs. Maybe if someone's editing massive 8K raw video files, but that's not something most of us "mortals" need.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I have only a passing interest in photography and mainly happy with family photos.

However it seems to me that if you truly value the work you have done the principle issue is identifying the most reliable and secure means of data storage.

I can understand the annoyance at subscription services but, bluntly, it costs them money to run them. They have the benefits of volume driving down cost, and the skill sets to properly maintain and upgrade software as required.

If it costs £1-200pa to secure a lifetimes work seems to be a small price to pay for using the best.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I have only a passing interest in photography and mainly happy with family photos.

However it seems to me that if you truly value the work you have done the principle issue is identifying the most reliable and secure means of data storage.

I can understand the annoyance at subscription services but, bluntly, it costs them money to run them. They have the benefits of volume driving down cost, and the skill sets to properly maintain and upgrade software as required.

If it costs £1-200pa to secure a lifetimes work seems to be a small price to pay for using the best.

I completely agree with the sentiment but have been hit by their bait and switch tactics. SmugMug was free, DropBox was free, iCloud was free. They all switched from free to paid. As the markets contract in number of suppliers the prices for Joe Public will inevitably increases and you finish up paying more with no alternative. £200 a year doesn’t sound too bad but that’s £400 over two years or £2000 over ten years, or a lot more if they push the prices up.

 

[sploo]

I completely agree with the sentiment but have been hit by their bait and switch tactics. SmugMug was free, DropBox was free, iCloud was free. They all switched from free to paid. As the markets contract in number of suppliers the prices for Joe Public will inevitably increases and you finish up paying more with no alternative. £200 a year doesn’t sound too bad but that’s £400 over two years or £2000 over ten years, or a lot more if they push the prices up.

Fusion360 went through a similar path; lots of useful features in the free version, then over time the capabilities were reigned in and moved to paid tiers. I don't really have a problem with new/added features being paid only, but moving existing functionality out just feels slimy to me. Because it's a "cloud" product you obviously couldn't stick to an older version to keep the stuff you used.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Note to oneself,"Don't buy a house near Keith"! Seriously why do we build all of our living accomodation and thus all of our valuables etc. at risk of natural disasters on the ground floor? Seeing the distress caused with recent floods, when losing all personal possessions which can't be replaced, makes me think of storing all that is most important upstairs (bit dificult if you live in a bungalow).

You are right! We had a second flood several years later. We had to work very hard to get the Environment Agency, Water company and councils to deal with the particular structure of the stream that caused the flooding.

 

[Keith Cocker]

I can understand Adobe switching to a secure subscription model. I was a member of a UK photography forum where only one member had a legal copy of Photoshop. All the rest had pirated copies.

 

[XTiffy]

The British company Serif has a suite of programs, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer and Affinity Publisher. They are one time purchase not subscription. At the moment they are avilable on a "Black Friday Deal" at 40% off but only for the next 24 hours.
These are high end programs equal to the Adobe products. All three are available on a universal license covering Windows, Mac an IPad at £96 and can be used on any computer you own (or control). They can also be purchased individually.
I have no connection to the company but have used their products for the past ten years.

 

[Rhossydd]

These are high end programs equal to the Adobe products.

They really aren't.
The Affinity suite is undoubtedly good, but they're not as powerful or versatile as the Adobe suite. The poor handling of raw photo files is reason enough never to bother with them. I say that as an owner of the suite and I first used Serif's Page Plus at version 1 in 1993. I've owned several of their packages over the years and they've always disappointed quickly.
The reality is that the Affinity suite is that it is just a re-dress of Serif's old products that go back to the very start of home computing. They've always been amazing value for money, but never been as well featured as the leading companies. You get what you pay for.

 

[Spectric]

I think this concept of cloud storage does come down to trust, I still have issues with using it no mater what they preach. In very simple terms do you trust having a storage medium you can handle and see or something somewhere else that you cannot see ? The bonus these days is that storage is cheap, therefore there is no excuse for not backing up data to multiple storage devices and keeping them in multiple locations and just comes down to self discipline plus how much value you place on the data. If you feel it is of very high value then it is worth looking at setting up a NAS system using redundant arrays and again everything is within your control, personally I like the WD drives and use these in my PC's and for external USB devices the Toshiba devices are good.