Why do we have so many issues with software programs

[flying haggis]

But all those software developers have to be seen to be "improving" things to justify staying in their jobs!!!! I was quite happy with outlook express for e- mail.......

 

[pe2dave]

Another perspective, it's much cheaper to ship 'partly' tested software and let users beta test it and get the bugs out.
Windows update is my peeve. Takes soooo long!
For daily working I changed to Linux (Fedora) which has worked flawlessly for ten years now. Improved to the point
where it is an automatic install with 95% of the software I want (Libreoffice a good replacement for rented MS office) freely available

 

[XTiffy]

I don't really have an issue with Microsoft and have windows 10 & 11 desktop computers except for their constantly altering my setup with windows update. I have Microsoft Office 2019 Pro but I also have LibreOffice and in LibreDraw you can edit PDFs, which I find useful. For the past 10 years I have edited a newsletter (which is professionally printed) using Serif PagePlus 9 (an English company). This is now a legacy product and I am in the process of switching to their recent programs. Affinity Publisher, Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer, these are one time purchase progs. "for life". You only pay for major updates not incremental updates but the original still works.. These are direct competitors to Adobe. The current price for the lot (you can buy the individual progs.) is £160 for a universal license which covers Windows, Mac and Ipad. They also sometimes have "sales" with decent discounts. I have upgraded from Version 1 to V2 and it cost just £90. I now have version one on one computer and V2 on another. As a domestic user you can install it on any computer you own or control.
I have a friend who assists in the publishing of a parish magazine and they pay £9 per month for Adobe Acrobat Pro.

 

[m3z]

As someone whose day job is in IT and writing software for a reasonably sized company I might have some different perspectives.

Software subscriptions vs purchased software in the consumer and small business market it's all about a money grab from the big companies, many people take the approach of if it isn't broken don't fix/change it and so wouldn't upgrade to new versions that are released. Additionally many people become used to the way something works (and I count myself somewhat in this number) and don't want to upgrade to a new version where features will be changed/moved and they'll have to relearn how to use the software. In my experience it's different in the big business/enterprise market because licencing software has (in my working lifetime anyway) always been a thing - and the monthly rental licencing is vastly simpler to manage than what came before. Such big businesses also tend to have security policies etc that dictate software must be kept up to date.

Software testing, quality of testing and the approach to quality can vary wildly depending on the company producing the software so it's hard to comment about one specific thing. I do see something which is now a common practice (and I understand but disagree with) is because with the widespread availability of fast inteternet it's become relatively easy to release updates. Companies, therefore, don't worry "too much" if the software they release is perfectly stable, so they do a certain level of testing in house and then take the approach that any issues reported can be fixed and an updated pushed out. Essentially making the users into testers. Sometimes releasing something they know has issues with the intention of fixing it later. And even worse sometimes advertising that a "feature" will become available later by updates (which they don't always manage to deliver on).

Security (as mentioned above) is also a consideration. These days I would be very wary of using XP on an internet connected computer as it has been out of support for a long time now. I myself use windows 10 but I don't like that either as the amount of internet connectivity it requires and that it's almost certainly reporting back to microsoft on my usage etc. If I didn't need windows for work then I would have switched over to linux (Ubuntu or another, there's many to pick from) a long time ago. If what you use a PC for can be done on linux and you are willing to use something that looks different and you have enough technical know how to install it then I can heartily recommend it.

I've probably rambled a little bit there and there is much more I could comment on but I shall leave it there.

 

[Rhossydd]

My first copy of Lightroom was free as a previous user of Rawshooter, the basis of Lightroom but the cost did increase and now along with the cost of photographic equipment makes it a really costly pastime.

It's only expensive if you choose it to be. You can continue to use old cameras and software and the cost is almost nothing. You were probably delighted with the results when you bought them, they haven't changed. Compare it to analogue photography when you had to pay for film and processing every time you took a shot.

People were scared of the Adobe subscription scheme, but those worries have proved wrong. They haven't price gouged, in real terms the software is now cheaper*, and innovation has continued and made the software even more valuable.

*My last upgrade of Lightroom (5>6) cost £49. Last year I bought a year's subscription to their 'Photography Plan' for £42 in the Black Friday sales and that includes the latest Photoshop as well, plus cloud storage. Actually I bought several and have stacked them to use over future years.

 

[Spectric]

It's only expensive if you choose it to be. You can continue to use old cameras and software and the cost is almost nothing.

The problem is Camera support, you are fine if you have stayed with an older camera and I dare say that as far as DSLR's go the gains from newer cameras are getting less so maybe sticking is the answer.

You were probably delighted with the results

That is what I have always thought about cameras, how can a camera be ok one day but just because a new model turns up the market is flooded with the older model the next day.

When I moved from a Nikon D300 to my last camera which was a Nikon 810 the other expense was upgrading my PC, I always took images in uncompressed RAW and there were just too many for the Pc to handle effectively.

 

[Spectric]

If you want to synchronise your computers grab a copy of OwnCloud.

Will have to take a look at that, the issue I have with these clouds (remote storage on someone elses server) is that my work is somewhere else. I suppose for my needs I could just use the cloud as a staging post to move data as and when from Pc to cloud onto the laptops and then remove from cloud as I don't need continous bi directional traffic.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Will have to take a look at that, the issue I have with these clouds (remote storage on someone elses server) is that my work is somewhere else. I suppose for my needs I could just use the cloud as a staging post to move data as and when from Pc to cloud onto the laptops and then remove from cloud as I don't need continous bi directional traffic.

That’s the beauty of OwnCloud. It uses your own storage. I have raid storage with two redundant backups, one offsite in my shed .

I won’t use third party cloud storage for anything I want to keep. I got bit by apple with their original .Mac cloud. I had all my images there. I shifted them to SmugMug back when they started but the inevitable commercialisation and subscription arrived a couple of years later. I then switched to DropBox which then did the same. I’ve been using OwnCloud for about five years now and everything is in my control. The only thing I have to worry about now is if I decide to start charging myself.

 

[worn thumbs]

I absolutely agree with m3z about not using XP for online purposes,In fact I don't think it will work with any remotely modern browser.My otherwise admirable Dell Latitude D600 still has other uses,but doesn't get connected to the web any more.
I updated my Linux Mint machine earlier in the week and it took about 40 minutes.The printer driver was the big surprise,a quick online search and it was done in half a minute or so.

 

[Rhossydd]

how can a camera be ok one day but just because a new model turns up the market is flooded with the older model the next day.

We've lived through the beginnings of digital photography and some features have been truly transformative.
RAW capture is one. Anti sensor dust technology is another. Video capture has also made a major impact.
But there'll always be a few people who just want the latest and 'best' and can afford to indulge themselves, often for little actual gain.

 

[Spectric]

That’s the beauty of OwnCloud. It uses your own storage.

That sounds very interesting, so essentially the data on my Pc can be synced with my laptop via owncloud and it is just a data path without storage so much much more secure. That sounds a cheaper solution than going the NAS route and my current backup is RAID1 as it is just backup and like yourself I keep a full backup external to the main property.

 

[Spectric]

We've lived through the beginnings of digital photography

My first camera was a Nikon Coolpix which was not a DSLR followed by a D70, the days when you could pay £200 for a 1 gig CF card. In those days change was frequent and the improvements were very noticable.

 

[paulrbarnard]

That sounds very interesting, so essentially the data on my Pc can be synced with my laptop via owncloud and it is just a data path without storage so much much more secure. That sounds a cheaper solution than going the NAS route and my current backup is RAID1 as it is just backup and like yourself I keep a full backup external to the main property.

There is an Uninvention VM image with OwnCloud pre installed. I just run that in a virtual box instance.
I have the VM (OwnCloud server) and the iCloud storage on an external drive. It runs a DB which contains a copy in the data you chose to sync then my computers sync to the server. You can freely choose which folders to sync and can have different sync setups on each computer. It works externally to your network as well if you set it up to do so. I travel a lot and it all keeps syncing seamlessly. Well worth a look.

 

[Housey210]

My house is very dark, it has no windows....
Been using Ubuntu since the late 2000's, got a single XP machine for some stuff that demands XP, had a win7 laptop for a few months, but its now Ubuntu as well

For those that can't handle change, it is probably the best in terms of user friendliness for 'non tech' users or phone users, adding software is as simple as going to the 'app store' aka the software store and clicking on install- no terminal window or typing commands out...
(I also use Linux CNC on my 3d mill, laser etc simply because it works so much better than Ubuntu or windows for that kind of thing, but it isn't as 'user friendly' as Ubuntu for your day to day stuff)
Plus 'Windows 10' - how boring....
Having an OS named 'Bionic Beaver'????
LOL
View attachment 168848

Hearing quite about this linux, a project I must try next year.

 

[Housey210]

As someone whose day job is in IT and writing software for a reasonably sized company I might have some different perspectives.

Software subscriptions vs purchased software in the consumer and small business market it's all about a money grab from the big companies, many people take the approach of if it isn't broken don't fix/change it and so wouldn't upgrade to new versions that are released. Additionally many people become used to the way something works (and I count myself somewhat in this number) and don't want to upgrade to a new version where features will be changed/moved and they'll have to relearn how to use the software. In my experience it's different in the big business/enterprise market because licencing software has (in my working lifetime anyway) always been a thing - and the monthly rental licencing is vastly simpler to manage than what came before. Such big businesses also tend to have security policies etc that dictate software must be kept up to date.

Software testing, quality of testing and the approach to quality can vary wildly depending on the company producing the software so it's hard to comment about one specific thing. I do see something which is now a common practice (and I understand but disagree with) is because with the widespread availability of fast inteternet it's become relatively easy to release updates. Companies, therefore, don't worry "too much" if the software they release is perfectly stable, so they do a certain level of testing in house and then take the approach that any issues reported can be fixed and an updated pushed out. Essentially making the users into testers. Sometimes releasing something they know has issues with the intention of fixing it later. And even worse sometimes advertising that a "feature" will become available later by updates (which they don't always manage to deliver on).

Security (as mentioned above) is also a consideration. These days I would be very wary of using XP on an internet connected computer as it has been out of support for a long time now. I myself use windows 10 but I don't like that either as the amount of internet connectivity it requires and that it's almost certainly reporting back to microsoft on my usage etc. If I didn't need windows for work then I would have switched over to linux (Ubuntu or another, there's many to pick from) a long time ago. If what you use a PC for can be done on linux and you are willing to use something that looks different and you have enough technical know how to install it then I can heartily recommend it.

I've probably rambled a little bit there and there is much more I could comment on but I shall leave it there.

not just software though! My new 10 ran for weeks then bombarded with updates that could not be installed, motherboard and processor not up to it! Would xp even run on net now? I only use mine as word processor as too the win 7.

 

[Tortoise]

As someone whose day job is in IT and writing software for a reasonably sized company I might have some different perspectives.

Software subscriptions vs purchased software in the consumer and small business market it's all about a money grab from the big companies, many people take the approach of if it isn't broken don't fix/change it and so wouldn't upgrade to new versions that are released. Additionally many people become used to the way something works (and I count myself somewhat in this number) and don't want to upgrade to a new version where features will be changed/moved and they'll have to relearn how to use the software. In my experience it's different in the big business/enterprise market because licencing software has (in my working lifetime anyway) always been a thing - and the monthly rental licencing is vastly simpler to manage than what came before. Such big businesses also tend to have security policies etc that dictate software must be kept up to date.

Software testing, quality of testing and the approach to quality can vary wildly depending on the company producing the software so it's hard to comment about one specific thing. I do see something which is now a common practice (and I understand but disagree with) is because with the widespread availability of fast inteternet it's become relatively easy to release updates. Companies, therefore, don't worry "too much" if the software they release is perfectly stable, so they do a certain level of testing in house and then take the approach that any issues reported can be fixed and an updated pushed out. Essentially making the users into testers. Sometimes releasing something they know has issues with the intention of fixing it later. And even worse sometimes advertising that a "feature" will become available later by updates (which they don't always manage to deliver on).

Security (as mentioned above) is also a consideration. These days I would be very wary of using XP on an internet connected computer as it has been out of support for a long time now. I myself use windows 10 but I don't like that either as the amount of internet connectivity it requires and that it's almost certainly reporting back to microsoft on my usage etc. If I didn't need windows for work then I would have switched over to linux (Ubuntu or another, there's many to pick from) a long time ago. If what you use a PC for can be done on linux and you are willing to use something that looks different and you have enough technical know how to install it then I can heartily recommend it.

I've probably rambled a little bit there and there is much more I could comment on but I shall leave it there.

Good summary, and I'd add that testing every feature in software is extremely difficult (impossible) in-house, so there comes a point when release (or a beta to a real user subset) becomes the best way forward. That well known law says there will be users (well, there'll always be one...) that will use the software in a manner that exposes a problem. This makes the release followed quickly by a minor update the most viable route for many.

 

[RogerS]

In many ways, Apple's business model is perfect. For them.

Keep updating the software and adding new features. Especially if you have multiple Apple kit such as an iMac, iPhone and maybe an iPad. If you upgrade any or all of them sufficiently then sooner or later the h/w in one of those items will no longer be able to be upgraded which puts it out of sync with the others, functionality then fails. The solution? Replace the item. Kerching.

 

[Spectric]

Good summary, and I'd add that testing every feature in software is extremely difficult (impossible) in-house, so there comes a point when release (or a beta to a real user subset) becomes the best way forward.

That is fine if the end user is a person but not if the software is for a control system, especially if it is safety critical. Testing huge programs through every possible itteration to find bugs is extremly time consuming.

 

[Sideways]

As with tools, one or two specific needs can dictate your choice of software.
I am a big fan of linux but I use the PC as a digital notebook and since evernote ruined their software by dumbing it down for ease of use by occasional users, I have beecome hooked into MS one-note. Nothing else I've found can provide the 3 layers of tabbing that make it easy to navigate through hundreds of notes.
I have some other software linked to test gear that is only available for windows, and these few programs are tying me to an ecosystem I'd rather escape.

 

[Agent_zed]

Like others I use windows for work as I need Adobe products. Whilst it's annoying paying their prices, adobe have really got their software right or at least better than the alternatives.

I built my parents a computer probably 12 years ago running Ubuntu and they have been fine with it, perfect for general computer things. The great thing with linux is being able to change the desktop environment. If you want it to appear more like XP then you can do that, if you want it more like Mac no probs or other flavours exist. It's a weird thing if you come from other systems where you get what you are given.

Personally I like win10 generally. The biggest problem I get is bloatware. I like to download a copy of win10 (you can get it free from microsoft as long as you have a genuine license number) and install a fresh copy. I put an ssd in my personal 12yr old laptop and installed a fresh version of win10 and it is very quick, probably as fast as my 2 year old work laptop.