I always put a length of foam pipe insulation around the pipe where a cable crosses it.
Which screws for laying floorboards?
- Thread starter okeydokey
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You need good clearance with these otherwise as they get old and more brittle you risk damaging them, is this where new plastic pipe has been connected to the original pipework ?
okeydokey
Established Member
Yes, that's right, will decide a bit later on whether to lay floorboards as usual after thinning them a bit or maybe a say 45cm square of thinned here to go over the plastic pipe connections and floorboard the rest. Won't chipboard all of the floor as it would make it less easy than floorboards to lift a section
Regarding the nails being used as pipe clips, during my working life I went to quite a few leaks from pipework under floors where the pipe expansion movement against the nails had worn through the pipe walls. This usually manifested itself when the system was changed from low pressure to sealed unvented working at a higher pressure.
Hope you haven't got the CAT5 cables running through the same holes or alongside mains voltage cables as induced voltage can cause problems with data transfer. Do not ask how I know this!
Hope you haven't got the CAT5 cables running through the same holes or alongside mains voltage cables as induced voltage can cause problems with data transfer. Do not ask how I know this!
okeydokey
Established Member
Hi and thanks for replying - the cat 5 accidently is not alongside mains
Good thought I would take the nails out but don't know how best to hold the pipes in such a confined space willlooksee if nail in ones will fit.
Good thought I would take the nails out but don't know how best to hold the pipes in such a confined space willlooksee if nail in ones will fit.
I doubt nail clips will fit (unless the joist has been deep cut!
). Suggest you get some flat felt pipe lagging and try to wrap this around the pipe where it passes though the joist. This is always a good idea in such cases as it will also eliminate the annoying expansion noises that occur when heating and cooling.
HOJ
Established Member
I suggest lay a chipboard/ply floor over, even if its not T&G, you'll not need as many fixings less risk involved in fixing single floor boards, you can mark it showing the pipe and cable runs, + felt insulate the pipes over the joists as has been suggested.
Leave the nails and just wrap them with cloth tape, or slip a bit of plastic tube over them.
okeydokey
Established Member
Good idea Fergie - a slice of a plastic milk bottle sounds ideal
Nice idea to wrap a little foil insulation around pipes if/as the pass over a joist.
What's often missed too is to encapsulate any pipes passing through walls; be the wall plaster board or sold material of any kind. So often those pipes are run with a very snug or tight fit and in time thermal inertia (pipes heating up/cooling down etc.) will gradually erode the pipe wall and a slow leak develop.
We have a cold water pipe feed from kitchen into an adjacent outside loo & tap; it had been more or less cemented in place and it was an age before we determined where an "apparent" case of rising damp was originating; this one the wall between the kitchen and outside loo. The damp patch was upto about eighteen inches from the floor; and seemed to come and go. A kitchen refit seemed to point to a leaking sink/washer outlet hidden behind the then cabinet housings; and when the walls were replastered (after the those items properly installed) it seemed resolved. However over time (say 18months or so) it reappeared but this time horizontally and at about eight inches to two feet up from the floor.; and again on that wall between kitchen and outside loo. I took a very close look at the pipe where it entered into the loo area and noted the "plaster"?" was a little mush/soft.... On closer inspection the original pipe had turned green where it passed through the wall and around a York elbow fitting; so it had been rubbing/abrading and thus slowly leaking for a long time. Longer tale short... Rerunning the pipe encapsulated - a larger hole and inside a piece of larger bore plastic - solved it once and for all. Pipe has room to move as needs be (thermal inertia) and isn't actually in contact with the plastic pipe shield. The pipe is secure on both sides with Munser fittings. That previous installation had been there likely since the '60's; and wasn't immediately obvious when we bought the house in the ln the late '80s.
The very least is to encapsulate or wrap/sheath pipes in heavy duty pvc sheeting strips... to prevent such abrasions; or as other suggest pipe wrap insulation or similar when passing through walls - though never considered it for passing over joists... The latter I'll keep in mind when next running any pipes that way in future.
As for screws versus nails - once I take a board up (which was previously nailed) I use screws. Allows easier access in future if so needed.
Also clearly mark on the boards where pipes/cables lie if directly under the fixing areas.
What's often missed too is to encapsulate any pipes passing through walls; be the wall plaster board or sold material of any kind. So often those pipes are run with a very snug or tight fit and in time thermal inertia (pipes heating up/cooling down etc.) will gradually erode the pipe wall and a slow leak develop.
We have a cold water pipe feed from kitchen into an adjacent outside loo & tap; it had been more or less cemented in place and it was an age before we determined where an "apparent" case of rising damp was originating; this one the wall between the kitchen and outside loo. The damp patch was upto about eighteen inches from the floor; and seemed to come and go. A kitchen refit seemed to point to a leaking sink/washer outlet hidden behind the then cabinet housings; and when the walls were replastered (after the those items properly installed) it seemed resolved. However over time (say 18months or so) it reappeared but this time horizontally and at about eight inches to two feet up from the floor.; and again on that wall between kitchen and outside loo. I took a very close look at the pipe where it entered into the loo area and noted the "plaster"?" was a little mush/soft.... On closer inspection the original pipe had turned green where it passed through the wall and around a York elbow fitting; so it had been rubbing/abrading and thus slowly leaking for a long time. Longer tale short... Rerunning the pipe encapsulated - a larger hole and inside a piece of larger bore plastic - solved it once and for all. Pipe has room to move as needs be (thermal inertia) and isn't actually in contact with the plastic pipe shield. The pipe is secure on both sides with Munser fittings. That previous installation had been there likely since the '60's; and wasn't immediately obvious when we bought the house in the ln the late '80s.
The very least is to encapsulate or wrap/sheath pipes in heavy duty pvc sheeting strips... to prevent such abrasions; or as other suggest pipe wrap insulation or similar when passing through walls - though never considered it for passing over joists... The latter I'll keep in mind when next running any pipes that way in future.
As for screws versus nails - once I take a board up (which was previously nailed) I use screws. Allows easier access in future if so needed.
Also clearly mark on the boards where pipes/cables lie if directly under the fixing areas.
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glenfield2
Established Member
I’m not sure I’d agree. Our 1900s house upstairs floors were butchered around in the ‘70s for ch pipes and wiring. ‘Craftsmen’ back then didn’t seem to care much about the butchery work they did on joists that were already a bit old and twisted.
The floorboards were also replaced with chipboard which has always creaked since we’ve had the house. It was also a bar-steward to get up to alter the ch was altered and even more creaky afterwards! At least floorboards can adapt to the unevenness of old joists.
okeydokey
Established Member
I agree glenfield and boards are going down, had to buy a few new as some old tongue and groove were far too split to go back.
Have taken various advice from above, e.g felt pipe stuff + have removed most of the nails holding pipes in position and 2 had left shiny bits not quite grooves on the pipe other were doing nothing. Possibly the nails were to hold pipe in place while joints were soldered? Have removed a bucket load of debris under the floor (looks a lot better) and are screwing the boards back with Floor tite floorboard screws.
The boards are being marked with felt pen showing pipe and cable runs.
While there I investigated some old cables that were unused and have removed 2 and solved some of the congestion in joist cuts outs so all in all going well.
In the scheme of things its a very small job and have only been spending a few hours of an afternoon, will finish today and while I'm down there can the sand skirting boards undercoat and then move on with decorating the area/buying new carpet.
cheers all
Have taken various advice from above, e.g felt pipe stuff + have removed most of the nails holding pipes in position and 2 had left shiny bits not quite grooves on the pipe other were doing nothing. Possibly the nails were to hold pipe in place while joints were soldered? Have removed a bucket load of debris under the floor (looks a lot better) and are screwing the boards back with Floor tite floorboard screws.
The boards are being marked with felt pen showing pipe and cable runs.
While there I investigated some old cables that were unused and have removed 2 and solved some of the congestion in joist cuts outs so all in all going well.
In the scheme of things its a very small job and have only been spending a few hours of an afternoon, will finish today and while I'm down there can the sand skirting boards undercoat and then move on with decorating the area/buying new carpet.
cheers all
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
22mm is probably a hot water pipe anyway so should be totally insulated.
The problem then is how do you get the pipes through without using a lot of connectors. What I have seen, I believe an european concept is cable and pipe runs that allow external access so changing or adding pipework is an easy job but in the UK they just throw so called houses up without any thought for future owners.
Notches and holes should always be in the first and last third of the span not the middle: Notching and Boring joists Safely
I just have to tell this story - sorry can't help myself.
My friends father did a lot of the finishing work himself when he had an extension built. The extension in this case being significantly larger than the original house resulted in a long corridor with a staircase at each end (it is a very impressive house). When laying the upstairs floor boards he used the traditional cut nails. All fine until he was sent abroad for two years. The house was going to stay empty so he drained all the water systems. When they returned and turned the water back on not so much leaks as floods, he had hit a heating pipe with every nail in the row of boards along the whole length of the corridor but the tapered nails had sealed in the copper pipe and held for several years only when drained had they rusted inside the pipes.
My friends father did a lot of the finishing work himself when he had an extension built. The extension in this case being significantly larger than the original house resulted in a long corridor with a staircase at each end (it is a very impressive house). When laying the upstairs floor boards he used the traditional cut nails. All fine until he was sent abroad for two years. The house was going to stay empty so he drained all the water systems. When they returned and turned the water back on not so much leaks as floods, he had hit a heating pipe with every nail in the row of boards along the whole length of the corridor but the tapered nails had sealed in the copper pipe and held for several years only when drained had they rusted inside the pipes.
HOJ
Established Member
No problem, but from my point of view and regularly having to deal with shocking workmanship such as these examples:
I look to the most efficient and practical resolution.
HOJ, Completely agree, my house is 1920 built as a County Council smallholding and the basics are sound enough but your photos are so familiar to my own. Having installed central heating I have had just about every board upstairs up. I have reinforced any floor joist that has been butchered (wiring not water) and have screwed not nailed. Pipes. for heating are plastic, which are easier to thread through holes in centre of joists in long lengths, reducing joints.
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