Which router? Newbie in need of advice.

[LFS19]

Hi there,

I'm new to the forum and almost equally new to wood working.
Been doing it a few months now, and I've learned quite a bit.

I have a fair few tools that include a circular saw, bandsaw, orbital sander, a reciprocating saw as well as a decent chisle set, but I feel now that I've had some time learning the basics of cutting, I'd like to buy a router.

With everything else I've bought, I haven't really known what sort of power was needing when researching the tools.
I stupidly didn't think to check if there was a woodworking forum where experts could help me to decide, so I just went with whatever seemed powerful in the wats department.

So now that I want to get a router, I had a look online for a forum and found this one.

I was hoping someone could help me find the right router.
There seem to be a fair few on the market, but I don't really know which brands or what sort of power would be the best, or even if that matters a great deal.

I had a look in B&Q, and they have a Mac Alister router for £70 that's 1500W.
It has allot of other information that I presume is important but I don't really know what I'm looking at.

Similarly, there's a Bosch one at £78 on there but that is less powerful.
I've owned both brands, the Mac Alister tools seeming to be good quality, and both the Bosch drill and sander that I have lasting over 20 years.
So both I presume are viable options.

There's also on EBay, a 1200W "Rhyas" one. A brand I've never heard of, but is only £35 reduced from £80.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks allot!

 

[mseries]

I have four routers including a cheap Black and Decker one. I know the shortcomings of this model and it's not it's power. It's hard to give specific answers without detail knowledge of specific models and mine are generally older models so perhaps not much use to you now. You will need to chose between 1/2" and 1/4" collet, there are pros and cons of both. 1/2" machines are more powerful but heavier and harder to handle and this great for table mounting. However 1/2" machines will take 1/4" collets and cutters but the opposite isn't true. I began in 1997 with a very good 1/4" model a Elu MOF96E which at the time in the early 90s was one of the best 1/4" ones you could get. I didn't find it restrictive for a very long time (like > 15 years). This model is low power by todays standards but I still use it and did so only last weekend. Modern clones of this are the Trend T5 and the Dewalt 615. It's this that I would recommend to a beginner actually. For a decent 1/2" you'll not go wrong with a Dewalt 625 or Trend T10 or T11 these are clones of another stalwart, the Elu MOF177E. Look at the prices and compare with the cheaper ones, you pay for the quality and the availability of accessories and spares (my old Elu is still going with new bearings and brushes). Others on here will recommend Triton, I won't because I haven't used one. I like the Elu/Trend/Dewalt because of the interchangability of the accessories such as fences and guide bushes, even my cheap B&D can join this party. NB I got a Trend T10 for the extra power of a 1/2" machine and it's ability to take very large cutters, for a beginner I don't know if I'd recommend something as industrial as this. Other 1/2"ers made to more modern patterns might be easier to use.

Power does matter but it depends on what you need it for. Lower power machines need to take less material off per pass so a job will take longer. Smaller machines will not be able to take large cutters for example for a 1/2" x 2" worktop cutter you'll need a 1/2" machine. Larger machines are heavier and more difficult for delicate hand held work. It's horses for courses and your budget will have an influence.

 

[blackrodd]

I'd start with a Trend T4, lovely entry level router, cheap 1/4" bits and one you will probably keep, the're so useful!
And a good all rounder.
As and, if you need to upgrade, being more experienced, then you will know what to look out for.
Regards Rodders

 

[Racers]

This one is the best value for money at the moment http://www.its.co.uk/pd/M12VE-Hitachi-1 ... TM12VE.htm
I have one and its a beast with loads of power, you won't find an equivalent one for that price the Makita is loads more, http://www.its.co.uk/pd/RP1801XK-Makita ... 1801XK.htm I have the Makita 3612c and I prefer the Hitachi.

Pete

 

[JohnPW]

Mods: move this thread to
general-woodworking.html
or
buying-advice-tool-reviews.html
!!

 

[JonnyW]

Welcome to this excellent forum.

I've owned several routers, from a half decent Makita to a cheap Ferm thing to the two Dewalt routers I now own.

The Makita died of old age and the Ferm fell apart due to it being a cheap piece of 'so and so'.

As most folk will probably tell you or ask you, how much will the thing be used and for what. If you're going to be mad routering and cutting fancy mouldings etc, then get something with a little more power in it. My Makita was a beast and could spend a whole day flat out cutting quite deep cuts, no probs at all. Where the Ferm struggled cutting air.

I bought a couple of years ago, a Dewalt D26204. It's not the most powerful router on the market, but it's handled most jobs I've thrown at it. The good thing about it, is that it is like having two routers. You can use it like a small router for finer jobs like edging or installing hinges etc etc, or put the side handle housing on it, and use it for larger moulding or grooving jobs that need two hands. I've done a lot of rebating and grooving with this little thing. A really good machine.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-d26204k-gb-900w-plunge-router-230v/23579

Or if you're going to be pushing the thing for bigger cuts, grooves, bigger moulding jobs or attaching it to a router table or dovetail jig, then a bigger beast may be your thing (although the one I've mentioned could easily be used on any standard dovetail jig on the market - excluding the Woodrat or Router Boss).

http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dw625ek-gb-2000w-router-240v/81683

You'd think I was a Dewalt agent or something.

Here's a very cheap and quite powerful router if you're just looking for an entry level machine. Half decent reviews also http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb591rou-1250w-router-240v/49312

Cheers

Jonny

 

[LFS19]

Wow, thanks so much for all the in depth replies.

First I'll explain my use for a router and reason for wanting to buy one as some of you have suggested.

Basically, being a beginner, every time I buy a tool I realise later on down the line that I need something else.
I started off needing a plane, and something to Champfer the wood I was cutting.

I learned that a router can actually do both of these things, ( I found out the champhering can be accomplished with a specific bit, and that you can quite easily with some wood create a guide so that your router can actually plane wood)
And that I'd certainly need a router also both now and in the future so do more complex designs and cuts, so I thought, why spend money on a planer which has limited use, and not just get a router that can do what the planet can do and much much more, and would be an excellent addition to my tools.
Routing is always something I've wanted to have a go at.

I've learned allot from all your posts, so thanks for that.
I should also have noted budget.
I won't really at this point be able to spend anything over £100, so while the more expensive models you've shown me look great, they're not really an option, unfortunately.

On the points about the collets - every model I've looked at takes both and I wasn't sure what it meant - thanks for clearing that up.

Interesting links on the various brands, I'll have to look into those.

Before your replies I was most interested in this model: ( my account doesn't permit me to post links yet so I'll just write the description)

Mac Allister 1500W 1/4" & 1/2" Router MER1500

12000-28000 rpm no load speed
Variable speed control
Maximum 60 mm routing capacity and 60 mm plunge stroke
Includes 1 x 6.35mm (1/4") collet, 1 x 12.7mm (1/2") collet, 1 x parallel guide, 1 x centre pin, 1 x dust extraction tube, 1 x depth guide, 1 x template guide


Not sure how that stacks up against the others you've linked.


Thanks again for taking the time to reply with such destale. It's greatly appreciated!

 

[undergroundhunter]

Ive got one of these http://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-erb380rou-2100w-router-230-240v/81664 with a set of 1/4" trend bits. Used it twice, I much prefer this kind of router https://goo.gl/GQF3uV. Less noise, dust, danger and hassle.

Matt

 

[JonnyW]

That spec looks really good and it can take a larger bit (1/2"). So you'll need all that power for turning some of the larger bits. I found that the smaller collet size of 1/4" does me, as most of my routing is by hand. The larger bits are usually (but not always) used in higher powered routers that are fixed to a table or on a jointing machine of some kind.

I wouldn't be too worried about finding a 1/2" collet sized machine, unless you are planning in the future to do bigger and more demanding things with it.

Just remember that the bigger the bit it can take, the more power you'll need. So your machine you've given the spec of, should do the job.

If you are using it for edging jobs such as simple edge chamfering, then a smaller cheaper machine would be able to do that task no probs. Such as this Bosch one from Tooledup - cracking little machine at a very reasonable £87.95. 1400w so plenty of power.http://m.tooled-up.com/product/145920

There is so much choice like all tools, it makes your head thump. But the above mentioned rules about routers will keep you right.

Jonny

 

[JonnyW]

Just had a look at Matt's Erbauer. Now that's a lovely machine. With a massive 2100w and a 1/4 and 1/2" collet size and at £99. Cracking machine. Absolute beast that will handle anything you throw at it.

Matt's right about the Stanley router - mine is really cheap to run

Jonny

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

Wow, thanks so much for all the in depth replies.

First I'll explain my use for a router and reason for wanting to buy one as some of you have suggested.

Basically, being a beginner, every time I buy a tool I realise later on down the line that I need something else.
I started off needing a plane, and something to Champfer the wood I was cutting.

I learned that a router can actually do both of these things, ( I found out the champhering can be accomplished with a specific bit, and that you can quite easily with some wood create a guide so that your router can actually plane wood)
And that I'd certainly need a router also both now and in the future so do more complex designs and cuts, so I thought, why spend money on a planer which has limited use, and not just get a router that can do what the planet can do and much much more, and would be an excellent addition to my tools.
Routing is always something I've wanted to have a go at.


By all means buy a router but if you want to plane wood and chamfer edges a no.4 hand plane by stanley or record will do both these tasks and much more besides. You can get a second hand one from ebay for £20-£30. It will be soooo much more pleasant to use and if anything quicker than using a router sled. There's a bit of technique to learn and you've got to learn to sharpen it but it's not rocket surgery. Machines have their place but don't get stuck in the "machine only" way of thinking that is so common in american you tube videos. Hand tools are cheaper, safer, quieter and when you get proficient they do a better job (a hand planed piece of wood will be silky and shiny something planed by a router and a jig will look a bit like a ploughed field.
Paddy

 

[LFS19]

Paddy - thanks for your comments.
I certainly notice what you mean when you talk of the power tools only trend you see on YouTube and the Internet.
To be honest though, I've been turned off the idea of hand planes because it got confusing when I researched it all.
The different brands, lengths etc made it difficult for me to come to any decision about which one I'd need.

In some videos I watched online, the carpenters using them had walls full of different sized planers for different jobs, and I started to wonder weather you'd need to buy a few to be able to plane the different types of wood you'd need planing, and by that time, at 20, 30 , £40 a pop, you'd had spend allot more than you would if you'd bought a power plane or a router. even though, ask you say, the hand plane would give a nice finish.

Maybe I'm off there (probably am, I don't really know anything) but that's the way it seemed.
Talks me jointers, block planes, Champfer planes boggled my mind, people telling me I needed several of these things when in actual fact, I was just looking for a cheaper alternative to the router or power plane.


Jonny + Matt

That hand router plane looks a nifty device, haven't seen one before.


That one at £99 does look good value.

The Mac Alister one was £70.

Though like you said, maybe I don't need all that power.
However, the less powerful ones like that Bosch in some cases are more money than the more powerful ones.
Even if I didn't need it right now, maybe a more powerful model like the two mentioned souls be better value.

Thanks to all three of you for your replies.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

There are a lot of hand tools that you can buy, but most things can be made with a very few tools. I must confess to owning quite a few planes, but most of them were £1-£10 at boot sales and I don't really need them. What I don't have is a chamfer plane, you just plane the wood with the plane at 45 degrees.
Check out Paul Sellers, he does a good job of making videos and writing blogs based on 10 tools and three joints. Of course he has many more tools than this as do most of us here but you only need a basic set. He tends only to use a no.4 plane in his videos although a larger one can be useful it's not essential. Another minimalist hand tool woodworker to check out on line is Richard Maguire. I've only come across his stuff recently and he has less vids than Sellers but it is very much in the same vein
Whatever you choose is of course up to you but I have a full range of woodworking machines, and loads of "cool looking jigs" and find I use them less and less in favour of some simple hand tools. You will find that whether you use machines or hand tools or both the people on this forum are a great resource and will give you loads of help when you have issues. I am constantly amazed at the generosity and knowledge that people here have.
Paddy

 

[AJB Temple]

For small routing work (chamfering, simple mouldings, slots, lettering, mortising etc) you don't need to go crazy on power. Think instead about how easy the machine is to hold and handle, and how easy it is to see what you are doing. Very often, small and light is good. Big stuff is best done on a table / spindle moulder.

Your investment in the machine is nothing without good cutters / bits. Make sure you have enough budget to do the jobs you aspire to.

(Historical note - I have used Elu routers bought ages ago, for 25 years. They appear to be indestructible. Generally best to save up and buy really good kit). If I consider fancy mouldings (they usually look very dated now) I make a special effort to tell myself off and remind me that simple is good.

 

[JonnyW]

No probs. I'm new to this forum also; the wealth of experience, skill and knowledge from members is simply breathtaking and very very humbling. Every post I read and the comments that follow, every work in progress that I watch, constantly remind me of how little I actually know. But I like to think I'm not too scared to ask questions regardless of how stupid I probably sound - and so you shouldn't be either.

Like above comments, I own quite a few planes and have collected them on and off over the years. Buy a half decent plane and block plane and familiarise yourself with them. Learn how they work and what they can do for you. You'll never regret buying a plane and block plane. If looked after, they will last you the rest of your life - and that's a fact - my favourite plane rolled out of Stanley's factory circa 1920! And it still works like the day it was made.

P.S. A good read. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handplane-Essentials-Christopher-Schwarz/dp/1440332983

Cheers

Jonny

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I'm a beginner and I have a cheapy Bosch AE1200, I think it is. It's ok for me so far. It's hardest job has been cutting down 3mm and clearing the area, in sapele, a type of mahogany. It did this without any problem whatsoever and I'd trust it for medium work on hardwood.

The wattage quoted on a lot of these tools is absolute bunkem in the same way that car manufacturers figures for MPG are bunkem. Think of it as an indication only and the cheaper the tool, the farther away from it's advertised power it will be, in most cases.

Not only that, but a router advertised at 1500W may not be more powerful than a 1000W router. It's all to do with how the power is transferred to the cutting action, not solely the output of the motor under ideal conditions. An analogy I like to use is that of computers. There was a perception, thanks to PC World, Comet and so on, the technology equivalent of the box pushing retailers in woodworking like B&Q, that the more Ghz a computer had, the faster it was. That is actually complete rubbish, despite what salesmen tell you. The reality is far more complex. So when it comes to wattage, don't get too hung up on it.

I've been toying with upgrading my router, but I'm finding it hard to justify at the moment. That might change when I get into working with hardwood more seriously but for now, the Bosch DIY grade machine is ok for me. It's not terribly precise, it's not terribly ergonomic and dust extraction is iffy, but I get by.

As someone has already said, the real key here is to use good router bits. A high quality specialist bit, such as a spiral upcut can set you back £50 or more. If you use good sharp bits, less is demanded from your machine and so on. Not only that, if you upgrade your router, providing it accommodates the same size bits, you can keep using the quality bit.

From everything I've picked up over the last few months since I dived into this, the same name keeps coming up in terms of routers, and that is Trend, both for the tool itself and the bits. If I was to change, I'd either go for a Trend or a Festool. The latter because I already have investment in their system, not because it's necessarily the best, even at the high price point.

I don't think you've wasted your money on a plane. You'll be glad of that one day when our new Made in China nuclear reactor breaks.

Edit: I wanted to add something. I made the mistake of not setting an initial direction for my woodworking when I started. I didn't set a budget for tools as such, but I overspent on tools which were perhaps not "key" to what I intended to do. Sorry if this sounds obvious, but if routing is something you intend to spend a lot of time doing, perhaps you're using jigs to make signs, lettering, shapes and so on, then £100 isn't enough of a budget and you should probably rebalance a bit. I hope that doesn't come across wrongly. My example, I spent a lot of money on a sander. It's good and the money isn't wasted, but it forced me to economise on a few other things, which I now find myself needing more, if that makes sense?

 

[worn thumbs]

If you are asking these questions,I regard it as a sign of a willingness to learn and one thing about woodworking is that there is always a bit more to learn.I would echo the comments about disregarding the American approach of only working wood when there is a switch involved.Hand tools are very versatile and will work beyond the reach of a power supply and you can also disregard the American comments about needing to change the plane irons for other brands until you have sufficient experience to identify a real problem,rather than following the self proclaimed experts.

A router is a wonderfully versatile machine and can save a lot of time.Obviously as a novice you will have a lot of learning to do and you may be amazed at some of the possibilities that open up.Any router will speed things up and you need to keep in mind that you can also do a lot of damage in a very small time.One reservation I have about lots of currently available 1/2 inch routers is that they have a huge aperture in the base to permit the use of large diameter cutters.All very well until you need to radius a piece of timber that can fit into the aperture and a chunk gets removed....

If you were tempted to buy retail I would recommend checking that any guide bush is concentric with the spindle before leaving the premises-some aren't and they are sometimes premium brands too.I would recommend practising on several pieces of scrap before trying to work on valued projects and its a good idea to try to reach a proficient level with all the aspects of the router before being tempted by a router table.In all honesty I don't much like router tables and firmly believe most amateurs don't give enough attention to guarding the cutters.On the other hand,I am happy to use an industrial overhead router all day long when necessary and on my daydream list for when Camelot select my numbers there lurks a 5-axis CNC router.

 

[DiscoStu]

Can I suggest taking a look at triton?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have (believe it or not!) a few routers (they just do not get used much). My big one is an Elu 177e (which I purchased 20 years ago and preferred to the large Festool at the time), and the small one is a an Elu MOF97. It is the latter machine that you should look into. Only 1/4" and about 1 1/2 hp, it is simply the finest router I have used. Excellent dust extraction, speed control and fine depth adjustment. Ever so balanced.

Here is one on eBay (UK), but it is advertised as a 110v machine for some reason): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elu-Mof-97Rou ... Swl9BWIoC~

The other excellent Elu is the MOF96, which is slightly smaller. Also on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elu-MOF-96-Ro ... Swo0JWG2qS

I have no idea what the prices are like, but these are lifetime machines.

For reference, I also have a couple of these old Stanleys from the mid 50's, which I call R2D2 (They became the Bosch machine) ..

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That MOF 96 may be excellent - but I wouldn't like to fit it with the cheap forstners that are sold with it ... :shock: