Which one first? Rabbet block, router, or shoulder?

[J_SAMa]

Hi all,

So I've got some money to spend, on a tool for fine tuning mortises and tenons.
3 options I have in mind:
Rabbet block plane (which can be used by a shoulder plane too?). Also rabbeting drawers and cabinets. Probably going to buy the QS one
Router plane, just for cleaning cheeks, and for grooves and dadoes. Vintage Stanley/Record or a modern woodie (cheaper than metal ones).
Shoulder plane. I'm not sure if they are good for tuning up cheeks... Any opinion on this? Also, vintage or modern woodie.

Which one should be the "top priority"?

More questions on wooden shoulder planes:
Are these wooden "rabbet planes" used as shoulder planes too?
http://www.fine-tools.com/sims.htm
What are the differences between rabbet plane and shoulder planes? Angle of attack? Can I use a rabbet plane as a shoulder plane (or vice versa)?

Sam

BTW I just realized this is the beginning of my second year on the forums

 

[Racers]

Hi, Sam

Shoulder plane. it will do all the above jobs, and bigger is better.
I wouldn't be with out mine



Pete

Well its one of mine, I seem to have a few... :shock:

 

[marcros]

I would go shoulder too.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The QS rebate block plane is great for cleaning up the cheeks of wide tenons, but not so good for the shoulders. One of my students bought one from us hoping it would also act as a block plane but it just doesn’t quite do it as well as either the QS low angle block plane or even touch the Veritas on quality.

The Router plane will clean down cheeks to a defined level and clean out haunches.

The shoulder plane can do shoulders and cheeks - it depends how wide your plane is and how wide your tenons are. The Clifton 3110 is the widest in their range

The other consideration is how good are your sawing or chiselling skills, which needs the most work after sawing your cheeks or shoulders?

In my kit I have a QS Low angle block and QS rebate block plane - the Veritas is better but a little big in my hand, I also have a Veritas router plane and a Clifton 410 shoulder plane which is a gem …
If you need any more advice just call or PM me
Cheers Peter

 

[dunbarhamlin]

And just for balance, I'd go for the router, and not bother with the other two at all. I refine shoulders with a chisel, and cheeks with router and/or chisel.
I do have a rebate block plane and a shoulder plane, but just use them to attract dust.

 

[deserter]

You can push a chisel through a length if timber and use that as a router on shoulders, Paul sellers shows this on one of his videos, not ideal but would do the job until you have another spending spree.


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~

 

[Dangermouse]

For me I use a shoulder plane for most tenons and if I have a big one I use my no10 carriage plane, which on large tenons is a marvel.

 

[J_SAMa]

So the shoulder plane is dominating here.
What brand should I buy? I'm trying not to spend more than 100 euros.
And how exactly would it clean up tenon cheeks? Isn't it too narrow

 

[J_SAMa]

The QS rebate block plane is great for cleaning up the cheeks of wide tenons, but not so good for the shoulders. One of my students bought one from us hoping it would also act as a block plane but it just doesn’t quite do it as well as either the QS low angle block plane or even touch the Veritas on quality.

The Router plane will clean down cheeks to a defined level and clean out haunches.

The shoulder plane can do shoulders and cheeks - it depends how wide your plane is and how wide your tenons are. The Clifton 3110 is the widest in their range

The other consideration is how good are your sawing or chiselling skills, which needs the most work after sawing your cheeks or shoulders?

In my kit I have a QS Low angle block and QS rebate block plane - the Veritas is better but a little big in my hand, I also have a Veritas router plane and a Clifton 410 shoulder plane which is a gem …
If you need any more advice just call or PM me
Cheers Peter

I wanna do 80 mm wide* 90 mm long workbench stretcher tenons with a shoulder plane :shock:... is that possible?

 

[Dangermouse]

A shoulder plane will do that. Use it to plane down to the making lines on the cheek and then use the cheek to rest the side of the plane on to do the shoulders. If your doing any larger tenons, I'd go for a no10 carriage plane or a 10 1/2 if you can get one.

 

[Roughcut]

In my limited experience I would also recommend a router plane because it can be used for trenching, cleaning the depth of mortises and more importantly will make sure that each side of your tenon is equal depth thus making sure your tenon is correctly centred in the mortise.
Anything the router plane cannot clean up a chisel will.

 

[marcros]

what about getting a cheap wooden "grannies tooth" router plane? I know that you are not in the UK, but they are very very cheap over here on ebay. There isnt much that can be wrong with them that a sharpen or a flatten wont sort. Then spend the rest of the budget on a shoulder plane.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I wanna do 80 mm wide* 90 mm long workbench stretcher tenons with a shoulder plane :shock:... is that possible?[/quote]

The QS Low angle rebate block plane is what I would use its 44mm wide so two swipes and you’re across your tenons, and it fits your budget, or it is certainly possible to do it with the shoulder plane but it would take several passes and you can leave trenches.
Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

Router planes are handy but not very often. Basically for stopped rebates and odd jobs like the bottom of an oil stone box. Can be done without.
Shoulder planes not good for rebates and are pricey but are good for big shoulders which is what they are designed for. Less good for small shoulders.
Best all rounder would be a Stanley 78. Good for shoulders, rebates, and cleaning faces of tenons. Plus a few wooden rebate planes which are very common and very cheap.

Then spend the rest of the money on wood; don't just fritter it away on fancy tools!

 

[Jacob]

.......

I wanna do 80 mm wide* 90 mm long workbench stretcher tenons with a shoulder plane :shock:... is that possible?

If you cut them carefully to start with you don't need a plane at all. Shoulders can be trimmed with a chisel. The ideal tool for cheeks is a surform rasp.
You certainly can't do a tenon with a shoulder plane but you could use one to clean up the shoulders if necessary, and the cheeks but it wouldn't be ideal.

 

[AndyT]

Answering your earlier question about the wooden planes on the Dieter Schmid site - they read down the page in order of price and in the fineness of the work they would be good for. So the basic €42 plane is for making or adjusting long-grain rebates and would not be good as a shoulder plane. The dearer ones - with the adjustable mouth - might do but their light weight would be a disadvantage in planing shoulders.

But do you really need to plane shoulders at all? It's not a very common technique afaik. Normal practice is to knife cut the shoulder line before sawing so that you get a smooth-fitting line straight away. The alternative technique is to mark the line but saw beside it, then plane back to the line - it's that planing, with the plane on its side, lying on the face of the tenon, where a shoulder plane is essential.

If you have tenons which are too thick or are unevenly cut, the simplest way is to pare back to the line with a chisel.
Alternatively you could put all the pieces side by side and plane all the tenons together, using a basic broad rebate plane, or your block plane. If it's an ordinary block plane you might need a chisel for the last 3mm where the plane would not cut.

In my own experience, I bought a Stanley 71 router plane next. I found it really useful. It certainly works well for cleaning up fat tenon faces but is also excellent for cutting housings. You just need to put a bit of full-thickness stock beside your tenoned piece so that the tool bridges the gap and can work down to the tenon face.

 

[Dangermouse]

Best all rounder would be a Stanley 78. Good for shoulders, rebates, and cleaning faces of tenons. Plus a few wooden rebate planes which are very common and very cheap.

Then spend the rest of the money on wood; don't just fritter it away on fancy tools!

Agree with Jacob on the Stanley 78 or Record 778 which is the best, I have a 778 and do use it for tenons, shoulders, rebates etc etc. A fine tool and cheap especially if you get a good second hand one on Evil-bay

 

[J_SAMa]

And just for balance, I'd go for the router, and not bother with the other two at all. I refine shoulders with a chisel, and cheeks with router and/or chisel.
I do have a rebate block plane and a shoulder plane, but just use them to attract dust.

Any good videos demonstrating shoulder paring? Do you pare acroos the width or the "thickness"?

 

[AndyT]

And just for balance, I'd go for the router, and not bother with the other two at all. I refine shoulders with a chisel, and cheeks with router and/or chisel.
I do have a rebate block plane and a shoulder plane, but just use them to attract dust.

Any good videos demonstrating shoulder paring? Do you pare acroos the width or the "thickness"?

I'll be interested to see other people's answers to this, but I think it's yet another of those questions where the answer is "it depends". Rather than looking for a universal rule, you need to think about:

- how big the work is
- how ragged or crooked the saw cut was
- whether losing wood will make critical dimensions wrong
- how the grain runs
- how soft or hard the wood is
- how it's being held
- what size chisel you have in your hand
- how sharp it is

etc, and just get used to it by practice!

 

[bugbear]

And just for balance, I'd go for the router, and not bother with the other two at all. I refine shoulders with a chisel, and cheeks with router and/or chisel.
I do have a rebate block plane and a shoulder plane, but just use them to attract dust.

Any good videos demonstrating shoulder paring? Do you pare across the width or the "thickness"?

I would argue that paring/adjusting a shoulder is "quite hard" and that sawing it correctly in the first place is (in fact) easier.

However, you can compensate for limited skill or practice by using time and technique. In particular, if you mark, then knife, then chisel a 'v' groove at the shoulder (what Robert Wearing calls cuts of the First Class) there should be very little scope for error.

BugBear