Which hard point fine cut saw?

[woden]

Mods, feel free to move this to the buying advice forum if you think it'd be better suited to there.

Anyway, I'm looking at picking up a stumpy (around 15") tool box type saw for a bit of sawing I have to do. I want something that's small enough so as to be easily handled on more intricate cutting and that gives a reasonably smooth finish. I know, I know hardly the sort of purchase to bite nails about and agonise over. But even so I'd still appreciate some advice on this cheapo purchase.

Firstly, there's Stanley's 15" jet cut/fine cut with 11 TPI...

there's the offering from Irwin Jack of their 13" tool box saw which is two inches shorter and finer with 13 PPI. But I haven't been able to find out if the teeth are triple ground...

then there's Bahco's 14" tool box saw that's even finer still with 16 PPI. However, I don't think this has the triple ground teeth or the manufacturers spiel would have said so. They just say it's fleam toothed so I presume that means it'll cut on both the push and pull stroke...

there's another Bahco short saw, the Prof cut that's 15" and has 11 TPI. Presumably isn't triple ground either as I can't find anywhere saying so...

finally, there's this from Axminster. You can buy these in a 15" length, they're triple ground and they have 11 TPI. This saw is about half the price of the others and I wonder whether that's to do with lower quality or actually because you're not buying a 'big' brand name. :?

So which of these disposable saws would be best to pick up?

 

[Scrit]

None of them? Why not treat yourself to a decent saw which can be resharpened? :wink:

Scrit

 

[jasonB]

Why not consider a pull saw with detatchable handle if its to keep in a toolbox, I carry one of these with me and a couple of blades.

Jason

 

[Chris Knight]

I have a Vaughan pull saw in my toolbox, similar to the one Jason shows. I can cut most things with it and very easily and it still cuts straight, despite it suffering bags of abuse (kids, trees, plastic, hardwood etc. etc.).

 

[Alf]

None of them? Why not treat yourself to a decent saw which can be resharpened? :wink:

Well at least it wasn't me saying that for once :lol:

 

[woden]

Yeah, I realise that in the long term it would be best to buy a high quality saw that can be resharpened. But considering my lack of abilities at saw sharpening for now I'll settle on a cheap disposable one.

As for the pull saw, I'm just not sure. I've never used one and would prefer to go with what I'm familiar with which is the western push saw - albeit one, in Stanley's case, that has reversed Japanese teeth. As for it having to fit a toolbox, this doesn't have to be the case. I just want a shorter saw and these mostly come under the description 'tool box saw', hence the use of the term.

Would anyone concur that the Bahco tool box saw with 16 PPI would be very slow cutting and with such small teeth will probably clog easily in soft woods? This is from what little knowledge I've gleamed about hand saws.

As for triple ground teeth are they much of an advantage in terms of the quality of finish the saw leaves - or do they only increase the speed of cut?

I'm leaning towards the Axminster saw as this would seem to have a high enough PPI to give a reasonable finish but not too high so as to be very slow. Plus, I can pick up two or three of these for the price of the Stanley and why pay more than peanuts for what in the end is a disposable item? Can anyone tell me if the Axminster saws are good, passable or absolute rubbish? :?

 

[Evergreen]

Woden

Like most forum members, I own a mixture of old and new tools. Among the latter, I have to say that Stanley Jetcuts are my favourites. Whatever other saws I own, I always keep a 7TPI and a 11TPI Jetcut handy. I prefer the 550mm long Jetcuts but I'm sure the shorter ones would be good too. They cut fast and very smooth and last for ages. One 11TPI Jetcut lasted for two laminate floors that I laid and I was using that horrible green cored B&Q mdf flooring. That's what hardpoint saws are - whipping through all manner of materials and not complaining if they meet the odd staple or sandy patch of grain.

So, I'd strongly recommend a Jetcut but whatever hardpoint saw you buy, make sure you get a straight one. The quality control of the main brands is pretty good but I suspect they get abused in transit and bulk deliveries to the DIY sheds.

Regards.

 

[woden]

From what you say, Evergreen, the Stanley Jetcut with 11 TPI would seem to give a good finish so what I'll do is get one of those but only for wood so it'll last a bit longer. In the mean time I'll pick up Axminster's 'copy' of the Stanley as I want to cut some mdf and this is apparently sore on hand tools. Of course, I have a collection of older saws which I've acquired through ebay and other places but these have yet to be sharpened properly as I just haven't got round to practising the technique. Truth be told, I felt a bit intimidated by the whole thing and sort of put them to one side while I taught myself to sharpen my chisels and planes.

When I finally get round to learning to sharpen saws adequately I'll then invest in some kit from the likes of Lie Nielsen and so on. At the moment, however, any such purchase would just go to waste once it went blunt. It's a pity in a way with the passing of the hand tool age that you no longer have all those saw doctors that would have been able to sharpen your saws for you. Well, I suppose you do but the blades they sharpen nowadays are TCT circular ones from table saws, etc. I'd imagine you'd get a funny look if you turned up with a tenon saw that need filing. :shock:

 

[jasonB]

I also use the 20" jetcuts for site work 7 &11tpi and find them very good though at the moment I'm using a bahco laminator in place of the 11tpi which I like the weight of . Also seems to stay sharper longer as its made for saw blunting laminate flooring (if you use a chop saw on laminate floor in a dark room you can see sparks comming off it!!)

Jason

 

[woden]

Why is laminate flooring so hard on saws? Is it because of the glue in the plywood and the glue fixing the solid wood on top of this? I am thinking of the right stuff here, laminate flooring is made up of boards that are around about 1/2" plywood with 1/4" solid wood glued on top? :?

 

[Evergreen]

Woden

The term "laminate flooring" is used pretty loosely these days. I guess it started out as you suggest , meaning wood that was literally laminated in wide planks with interlocking profiled edges. It has come to mean wide planks of any material with interlocking profiled edges. The "laminated" floor planks that I got from B&Q in fact had a contoured marble tile pattern pressed into the top plastic layer, then a core of green, water resistant MDF and finally a very tough plastic backing layer. In other words, precious little wood in them at all! It's sawing through all that plastic and MDF that does your saw's teeth in.

You won't regret buying a Jetcut, I'm sure.

Regards.

 

[George_N]

I also use the 20" jetcuts for site work 7 &11tpi and find them very good though at the moment I'm using a bahco laminator in place of the 11tpi which I like the weight of . Also seems to stay sharper longer as its made for saw blunting laminate flooring (if you use a chop saw on laminate floor in a dark room you can see sparks comming off it!!)

Jason

Jason, the idea of using a chop saw in a dark room gives me the horrors. I have a vision of me ending up looking like Kenney Everett's DIY guy Reg Prescott...if you remember that.

 

[jasonB]

By laminate I mean a high pressure laminate (very thin formica) usually laminated to an MDF core, its not the core thats abrasive its the top surface.

A plywood core with solid timber wearing layer is generally termed "engineered" flooring.

Jason