Which aquamac ?

[Ollie78]

Hi

I have to make an Oak door and frame for a client, it will be a front door which opens inwards, with a weather bar and no extended outer cill.

I plan to use a Schlegel aquamac seal but am not sure which shape is best for this. I can Kerf the frame before assembly and am thinking the kerf should be on the "face" of the rebate.
Can anyone who does a lot of doors suggest the best shape. Or if there is a better option.
I was considering adding a secondary brush seal like they put on composite doors, just for "belt and braces" as well.

It all has to be cotswold cottage style, this sort of thing



No aluminium threshold or anything, should I do a different seal at the bottom ? There is too much choice almost.

Cheers

Ollie

 

[johnnyb]

many put aq21 as a wiping seal and the other popular one(senior mo)as a compression seal on the rebate.
I do prefer just aq21 as a wiping seal personally(tbh I prefer none) set into a groove( like the router bits do) that way I can make them a good fit. why no seal at the bottom?
is it for access. modern macc steps are really poor but generally well sealed and low profile. the hefty cast beasts made by Montague Jones are great the chunky aluminium ones are good as well.

 

[Ollie78]

many put aq21 as a wiping seal and the other popular one(senior mo)as a compression seal on the rebate.
I do prefer just aq21 as a wiping seal personally(tbh I prefer none) set into a groove( like the router bits do) that way I can make them a good fit. why no seal at the bottom?
is it for access. modern macc steps are really poor but generally well sealed and low profile. the hefty cast beasts made by Montague Jones are great the chunky aluminium ones are good as well.

Thanks johnnyb

I was looking at the aq21 but was not sure if a compression seal like the aq63 might be better against the face of the door, or do you mean both.

Mostly when I draughtproof existing doors I actually use the brush pile with weather strip like I put in sash windows and machine it into the door edge so its not relying on compression of the door in wonky old frames, but as this will be a new ( and hopefully straight ) I thought I would go with proper seals.

Its not that they don`t want a seal in the bottom as such, it will have a wooden cill all the way accross they just don`t like aluminium add on bits, I will have a look at the Montague Jones ones.

Ollie

 

[Doug71]

I normally use AQ21 as a wiping seal, I tend to work on older properties and like to have the seals hidden when possible.

I was working on an old listed place recently which had all new external doors and frames fitted, the firm that did them used AQ124 as a compression seal against the face of the door. The joinery was all top class but had a perfect white spray finish and black weather seals on show, to me they looked like uPVC.

I have used AQ21 as a compression seal against the face of the door and it works fine, it avoids any cut outs in the seal for hinges or lock keeps which you sometimes get when you use it as a wiping seal.

The AQ21 and AQ124 both work the same when used as a compression seal it's just the AQ124 has the groove cut in the other side of the rebate which I guess is cut at the same time as the rebate if you have the right tooling.

 

[johnnyb]

my thinking is the compression seal works well with multipoint locks. the wiping seal aq21 doesn't give lots of " resistance when closing. I'm with doug whilst I admire the manufacture of modern style joinery( u values multipoints espags seals etc) the look often leaves me cold. I was with a joiner yesterday who was very good at this style. unfortuneatly he was trapped with 2 years of a lease with enormous rent desperate to escape saying his customers think his prices are insane. his work was like it was from a factory perfect but slightly devoid of " life"

 

[Ollie78]

Thanks for the info.

@Doug71
I know what you are saying about not making them look like pvc.
I don't want them to look too obvious either probably use brown ones as it's going to clear finish oak.

@johnnyb I offered to do multi point locks but they want traditional so probably a 5 lever mortice and a nightlatch. I was quite pleased with that as I always find the multipoint ones to be surprisingly rubbish and need constant adjustment.

Whilst googling yesterday I noticed ironmongery direct do rubber seals that come attached to the weather/drip bar and seal against the top of the outer cill. Anyone tried these.?


Ollie

 

[deema]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but I use water bars on the bottom of doors, with a rebate cut into the door. looking at ironmongry direct they sell these, which are typical of what I use. Work great, just make sure the jamb seals are in the outside of it!
https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...h0Man-l5pSkkvxIMTjyqidLwz-yXEZMBoCON8QAvD_BwE

 

[Ollie78]

@deema

I was on about these https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk...-weatherboard-inward-opening-doors-oak-128785
I wouldn`t buy the wood bit like this just the seal bit itself.

Was planning to put the rebate in the cill and leave the door square, then put the aquamac across the bottom as well as the sides.
I guess I could do it with the bar ?

Too many ways, its confusing me.

Ollie

 

[imageel]

I'd agree with others on recommending Aquamac21 over any.of the compression seals, mainly because in my experience I find compression seals because they are operating over such a large area can cause the door to distort.
My front door, a substantial 47mm thick 6 panel Sapele has distorted at the bottom such that it no longer seals so plan to replace the frame and use Aq21 as a wiping seal right next to the rebate and thus avoiding the hinges, mortice and rim latch keeps, I can do this as i have a spindle moulder and Axi cutter so can get right up close to the rebate.
Years ago I replaced all the windows on my former house and used the compression Aqua seals and.i think.this worked well in this instance because there was space behind the cantilever hinges and multipoint espagnolets securing the windows so was relatively easy to adjust both the hinges and lock keeps to apply an even pressure on the frames, whereas doing.the same on a conventional door ain't.so easy
Ed

 

[imageel]

Forgot to add Marches Ironmongery - ironmongery and tools for carpenters, joiners, builders and DIY enthusiasts - Marches Architectural Ironmongery
Sell a weatherbar with a super flexible rubbery bead flap that seals to the door and which I've had on my double doors to my workshop for 10+y and still works well
Ed

 

[Doug71]

Don't rebate the cill like you would the frame as if it steps down you will end up getting water in. I find all the traditional style weather bars (where you rebate the bottom of the door out) even the ones with a rubber on the back can let water in if it's windy and raining in the wrong direction.

I tend to use the low line Macclex thresholds, these for a 45mm door or the 15/56 for thicker doors.

https://www.marchesironmongery.co.uk/exitex-macclex-15-2-threshold-914mm-aluminium.html
They have small weep holes in the front so any water that gets in can get out again, you still need a weather bar on the door though for belt and braces.

 

[Ollie78]

@Doug71

I did think about the rebated cill being a problem with this design, hence why I was looking at all the seals and stuff.
I mentioned they could have an aluminum threshold like you suggest but they really dont want that, to be fair I think they do look a bit like they are an afterthought or a remedial measure. Would make it easier though.

My original thinking was to try and employ similar sealing method to the macclesfield things but in the wooden cill.

@imageel I may try the weatherbar method you mention. It looks like the aq 21 is getting a lot of votes

I notice that they do sell the replacement seals for the macc cills so if I could find a suitably sized carrier I could route that in to the wood.
More thinking required.....

Ollie

 

[pgrbff]

I have used 21 against the side of the door and also as a type of compression seal against the closing face of the door. The doors here are completely different in design so it's a case of doing what's best given the design parameters. Both set into the frame. I also use it on windows as they too open inwards in Italy to allow for shutters.