where's all the carpenters gone?

[2tone]

evening guys,



Wondered if you could help me, this is more of a trade question than hobbiest but i know some trade guys like myself hang out here and remember JEFFINFRANCE had a similar situation, so here goes.

I'm looking to employ a new carpenter to start with me but can't seem to find anybody to fill the position, it's not that there's no suitable candidates. Just no response.

My problem is, that the works in the French Alps. I'll be employing through a UK payroll agency so no problem there. The wages seem decent to me and accommodation and subsidized flights are included. though Still nothing biting.


Maybe its the posting that's Crap.

http://frenchalps.angloinfo.com/forum/t ... ic_id=4345

I thought with the way work was slowing up in the UK people would be bitting my arm off for the chance.

If i was still based in the Uk i would advertise locally and for men and always find them. but when you have to advertise nationally i seem to hit no results. I've tried many websites but with advert prices ranging from £100 a pop it's going to prove really expensive and that's me limited to one region.

Any ideas, on where to post? websites, networks etc or know a mate.

Admin, i'm sorry if i'm breaking the rules, delete as you see fit. i'm a 2 man crew looking for a new guy I'm here for answers not to publisize my work.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Tony

 

[jasonB]

I think your rate of pay may be a bit low.

Also any decent carpenter worth his salt should not be available for an immediate start, you would hope they had work lined up.

J

 

[2tone]

I think your rate of pay may be a bit low.
Also any decent carpenter worth his salt should not be available for an immediate start, you would hope they had work lined up.J

i looked around to see what the pay rate was at the moment, a few london boys are 14-15p/h but supply own tools and transport. i supply everything and have nice Festool goodies to play with. the 12 seemed to be decent enough and there's free accommodation, flights and vehicle. maybe i will have to review this, everything is negotiable "depending on experience of course"

I couldn't agree more with this and it's something i'm very aware of when hiring new guys but the position needs to be filled asap. and we've all been there at some point when the chips are down and you need to start a new job asap!

Maybe i'm setting the bar a little high, most guys who work at this level would be working for themselves. Perhaps i need someone who wants to learn and likes the change in scenery.

Thanks for the heads up, i'll take it into consideration.

T

 

[John Brown]

Great part of the world.

If I were a carpenter...

OK, if I were a carpenter, and single and didn't own a house and a dog, I'd jump at the opportunity to work in St Martin de Belleville.

 

[EddieJ]

Sadly the rates are way to low.

For local work in my neck of the woods, £18.00 to £22.00 per hour plus VAT is the norm.

Good luck finding someone though.


edit.. I did receive an email from a very keen lad a couple of weeks ago which caught my eye.
He is only 19 and has only had carpentry experience at college, but was desperate to get into traditional oak framing. If you get really stuck and decide upon a labourer, I can pass the email and contact details on to you.

 

[2tone]

they will be working for a french company and have a french address etc. I use a UK payroll (PAYE)company so they do not loose there UK entitlements. i'm not looking for a bloke who has a wife and kids at home in the UK, tried that and it doesn't work.

It's more suited to someone single who wants a semi/permanent change of lifestyle/scenery if they work out. we are based in the worlds largest skiing area 550km in the winter and VTT, rafting and every other outdoor activity you could imagine.

in the summer we build/refurbish chalets and move mountains and in the winter we ski and fix faults.

Maybe i'm marketing it all wrong. will take note of your comment though.

 

[MatthewRedStars]

Sounds amazing, doing cool stuff > getting rich. I'm gonna think about this over a beer and might drop you an email.

 

[clk230]

generally speaking if your working away from home the wages are alot better than normal ,most carpenters will already have tools anyway so wether your supplying them or not doesn't really matter.

Any reason you can't get a french carpenter ?

 

[DaveyP]

Any reason you can't get a french carpenter ?

I recon its because they work in millingmeters and it would take ages to convert all the measurements from
good old British inches

And also they don't understand the concept of a 'smidge' or how much a 'gnats' is.

But all joking aside.. the rate is poor for a skilled Brit and even poorer for a local, maybe east Europe would be the best place
to advertise.

 

[markturner]

I agree, wages too low. My guys all earn £140 plus a day. Most would want an incentive too work away as well. Hope that helps.

Cheers, Mark

 

[petermillard]

in the summer we build/refurbish chalets and move mountains and in the winter we ski and fix faults.

Sounds great - but in reality you're offering a three-month contract for (not much more than) a month's money; no surprise you're not getting much response, tbh.

Just FYI my teenage daughter earns £10 an hour just babysitting - no tools required...

Cheers, Pete

 

[Phil Sewell]

It seems Tony is offering free accommodation which offsets the low wage somewhat. Be interesting to know how the cost of living compares with the UK, that would give a better idea of what £12 p/h is actually worth.

I would imagine where he lives is pretty expensive though.

Phil.

 

[clk230]

free accommodation is worthless to someone with a mortgage to pay or a rented property that they want to move back to after the trip.

 

[2tone]

I've not lived in the UK for a long time so maybe I'm a bit off with my rates in comparison to the boys in london but theres others out there who are certainly not getting £15 or close. I looked hard on the wonderweb for uk rates and thought in fact i was offering more than average.
Please bare in mind this is not an offshores style job where you earn mega bucks and send it home to the wife and kids, or whete you work 3 on and, 1 off but more of a working holiday ideally suited to a young singles/couples traveling or looking to do a season.

People who work for us, do so because of the lifestyle and the level of work. You get 12£ ph but have nothing to pay other than Beer and food.

I always loved travelling/working away from home and learning traditional techniques
Of other countries enabling me to progress in my trade. I suppose I was looking for someone like minded
Its not for everyone, but for 1 in 1000 it's the ideal job.


Thanks for the feedback guys, i appreciate it.

I think I'll have to be more specific as to what i'm looking for.

 

[houtslager]

have to agree with most of the previous replies. Here in Holand the hourly rate on the books is € 15,00 for junior carpenters/ furniture makers. For Freelance/ self-employed the rate is € 25 plus an hour and then plus costs = €0.19ct per km and away from home costs.

So, your offered rate is way below even for Eastern European chappies sorry to inform you.

hth,

K

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

Ill agree, I charge £22.50 an hour and enjoy working in france but generally I wouldn't get out of bed for £12 a hour. To be honest I have used a few festools and most of them I would prefer to use my own non festool brands. I don't charge £22.50 because I have my own tools just like a man with a van don't charge more because they own a van.

If you want to pay £12 a hour then you need someone with less experience, maybe an apprentice or just out of collage.

For a little more money I would consider it for a month just for the experience of working in that part of France, a month is max though as I have responsibilities in England plus a family.

Although your saying its free accommodation, I would expect that. If I work away the client picks up the sleeping bill and traveling costs. When the 3 months is up said person has then got to come home and find a new place to live or still pay his mortgage/rent while in france if they wish to keep there home. If they have family in that home then same goes.

So free accommodation and paying for there travel isn't really an incentive, its something we would expect. Food is just as expensive in france than it is here and eating/drinking out is more expensive in France so you need to pay good money to make it worth it that way. Maybe half price entry and hire for the skiing and similar would be more an incentive.

 

[2tone]

the long and the short of it is,

Every year 10's of 1000's of people rock up to the mountains in a bombed out van looking to earn a bit of cash and ski. they sort out there own accommodation look for nothing other than beer money and some hours of work to fund the lifestyle.

In 3-4 months time i'll have more danish and Swedish ski bumbs than i know what to do with. I was in fact looking to offer a better package to another English guy now rather than wait until the snow arrives and he's in the same pot with every other man and their scabby dog looking for a job. This is not a career, It's like you said its for a short period of time, Enough to enjoy the place then buger off again.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

but more of a working holiday ideally suited to a young singles/couples traveling or looking to do a season.

People who work for us, do so because of the lifestyle and the level of work. You get 12£ ph but have nothing to pay other than Beer and food.

I always loved travelling/working away from home and learning traditional techniques
Of other countries enabling me to progress in my trade. I suppose I was looking for someone like minded
Its not for everyone, but for 1 in 1000 it's the ideal job.

There lyes your problem. Your above statement and highly experienced carpenter your add asks for contradicts each other.

 

[2tone]

new post above, BTW.

Normally during the season i take guys on for a few days work and if we gel and they work well they get to stay the whole season. I like it this way that way i don't have risk flying a guy out and he turns out to be a numpty. I put highly experienced on there to keep idiots and chancers away. 8 out of ten there fine and they work well, some more than others and some need direction.

To be honest i'm really wondering if this is worth the ball ache, the amount of grief i've been getting from guys on other forums is unreal "you need to pay away money, 3 on and 1 off, what about travel allowance?" Maybe my fault for trying to hard.

Have you got a nephew who likes snowboarding?

 

[clk230]

i think like most things in life you just need to think would i be prepared to do it if the boot was on the other foot