What tools to buy

[Chris U]

I intend to start a small business making guitar amp and speaker cabinets. I need to buy reliable tools for the purpose. So far I have made a few cabinets having had the wood cut to size at the woodyard. I use butt joints with dowels and round over edges by hand sanding. However this is on a very small scale at home. I now want to make a small business of this and need to obtain the correct tools to produce cabinets efficiently and in larger volumes.
I realise I need a large saw table to accurately cut down 8 x 4 birch ply and MDF, router table and cutters etc and a means of producing dovetail joints, however, other than looking in DIY stores and catalogues, I have no experience of such tools so don't know what is good or bad. A vertical panel saw would be nice but I don't want to go to that expense at the moment. It's all very well reading how to's etc but I want recommendations as to what makes to buy and a list of everything I need to carry out this business. Basically I want to install it all and get started.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Les Mahon]

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum.

It might help if we had some idea of your budget and the space you have available to you as both of these will greatly influence what you could/should buy.

For example a dimenson saw capable of handling full size sheets needs alot of real estate to use, and handeling full size sheets single handed is not easy. Pesonally I would opt for some form of Circular saw and guide rail arrangement to break down the sheets, and possibly a smaller table saw for final dimensioning.

There is a long discussion on that topic Here which should give you food for thought.

As to routers and cutters etc. the old adage of you get what you pay for runs true to a large extent. Especcialy with cutters, cheap ones won't hold an edge and you will spend more time sharpening them, which in turn means lost time from a business point of view.

As I say, If you can give an indication of budget I'm sure we can all throw some advice your way!

Regards
Les

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Chris, it sounds very much as if your primary need is to get sheet goods down to size and square accurately and efficiently.

For this it's my experience that the most efficient means of doing this is with a good quality sliding table saw, sometimes known as a dimension saw. Common names to look for in the mid-price bracket are SCMI, Rojek, Hammer, Felder and Casolin. Jet and Axminster brands are also about and can be counted as economically priced machines. At the ring puckering end of the scale are saws by such as Altendorf or Martin. Some of this kit is 3 phase only and some comes in either 3 phase or single phase configurations.

If all these options give you the heebie-jeebies have a look at the Festool system of guide rails and their hand held circular saws.

With some searching around you may be able to buy some of the saws in good condition second-hand. If you look at second hand then Wadkin is a name to add to the list.

I'm aware that the prices attached to some of these machines bought new might not suit your pocket, but the types of machines I've mentioned are what I consider really appropriate for the processing of large amounts of sheet goods (man made board.) I don't use anything else for this kind of work for good reason. Just about every other option has a significant flaw, i.e., inefficiency, and inaccuracy, although smaller scale operations can often get by with the Festool system I mentioned, or the vertical panel saw systems you've already looked at. Slainte.

 

[Colin C]

Hi Chris and welcome to the forum.

As we dont know what area you have or your budget.

I would also look at the EZ rail system too, try here

I use it and I am very happy, also there are a few that have it as well on here and I think you will hear the same from them.

You will not need a tables saw as I have just finished a corner unit with it ( veneered MDF with no or little break out ).

You can also have look at the Forum on it and one guy had the Festool and the EZ, has done a review on the two and which he like more plus why ( this is not knocking the festool as I have on used it but I know it is good from of the people here)

Good luck with what ever you pick

 

[Chris U]

I am initially allowing for about £5-7000 to get set up with everything I need to get started. I could double that if I need to. Obviously a vertical panel saw would eat up the major part of my budget, but do I actually need one, they certainly make it look easy. I don't have a workshop but will be looking at renting suitable premises- ie farm building or industrial unit. So basically I will try to fit the workshop to the tools once I know what I need. I need suitable space for cutting and assembly of the woodwork, and an area for laying out and cutting/applying the vinyl covering, and further space for storage and packing. I would estimate I need at least 700 sq ft. I am expecting to be able to produce a minimum of 10 finished units per week to start (as a 1 man enterprise).
I had a quick look at the Festool and EZ rail system but have not found a UK seller or price list.

 

[Colin C]

You cant get the EZ from the UK yet but you can get it Here.

I got mine from there and so have a few on here with no problem

 

[Colin C]

There was one UK supplier but he no longer does it ( but still has it on his site last time I looked )and seems to try to put people off when there ask about it :roll:

Ps What I was told be him was not right from what I have seen too but did try to sell some thing else :roll:

 

[ProShop]

Chris, you'll be needing for one of these then HERE

 

[Anonymous]

Chris, have you checked your market, I was approached by someone to make speaker cabinets for him, 25/week, as a small cabinet maker I couldn't and wouldn't make them for anywhere near the price he was offering me.

With cnc machines these can be knocked out extremely cheaply.

 

[paulm]

Try this for the Festool

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=36

or just google for Festool, plenty of options come up !

Not sure you would want to bother with dovetails and related jigs, particularly if covering with vinyl. Would have thought biscuits or pocket hole joinery would be quicker and more efficient.

Cheers, Paul.

 

[Chris U]

Try this for the Festool

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=36

or just google for Festool, plenty of options come up !

Not sure you would want to bother with dovetails and related jigs, particularly if covering with vinyl. Would have thought biscuits or pocket hole joinery would be quicker and more efficient.

Cheers, Paul.

Well, I have been using dowelled butt joints which is adequate on small cabinets but dovetailed joints are the traditional method on more expensive ones so I would like to offer that option.

 

[ProShop]

Chris,
I'm not convinced you need a vertical panel saw, in my experience they're not accurate enough for what you have in mind. imho you need to be cutting sheet materials once only, and the best machine for that as Slainte says is an accurate panel /table saw.

You mentioned dovetailing, if it were my money it would be the Leigh dovetail jig for what your planning to do especially if you have a run of them to make.

Do I get the idea that your making specialist individual designer amp & speaker boxes ?. I mention this as I have a friend who makes designer guitar cases, they look fantastic and never makes the same one twice. He does quite well out of them.

 

[Chris U]

Chris, have you checked your market, I was approached by someone to make speaker cabinets for him, 25/week, as a small cabinet maker I couldn't and wouldn't make them for anywhere near the price he was offering me.

With cnc machines these can be knocked out extremely cheaply.

I know they could be knocked out quickly and cheaply with CNC machines, but no-one actually sells them cheaply, not to the public anyway.
I have looked into the market and found at least 3 definite outlets, possibly 4. However I am still not absolutely certain it would be viable as a full time business. My posts on this forum are part of my research.
I would be interested to know what you were offered. As I understand it, no cabinet maker wants to waste his skills on something like amp cabinets when they can earn far more making a decent piece of furniture. I don't possess those skills but am perfectly capable of making boxes. I also have another related idea which would run alongside the manufacturing to help support the business and could well become the mainstay.

 

[gwaithcoed]

Hello Chris,

Welcome to the forum I'm afraid I cannot offer any advice but I wish you well with your venture

Alan.

 

[Chris U]

Chris,

Do I get the idea that your making specialist individual designer amp & speaker boxes ?. I mention this as I have a friend who makes designer guitar cases, they look fantastic and never makes the same one twice. He does quite well out of them.

My idea is to make a consistent range of head and combo cabinets to fit readily available amp chassis, nothing special just good quality birch ply. and maybe a cheaper MDF option. The finished article would look the same on the outside. One off specials could be another option and perhaps a unique design specific to my own amps if I can still find time to make them.

 

[Anonymous]

Chris, I can't remember the exact details but they were rosewood boxes, approx 600h x 200w x 250d, 2 or 3 cut outs at the front, I think we were offered £55 a box, that was with a high gloss finish on them.

 

[Chris U]

Yes, I can see why you couldn't do them at that price. I don't think I would want to do a simple tolexed ply box for that either.

 

[Chris U]

I have finally moved to my new home and found suitable workshop premises. I have 700 sq ft of floor space. Now, having spent many hours looking at saw benches and equipment, I still don't know what I should buy. Basically I need to be able to accurately cut 8'x4' sheets of ply lengthways. All I need is a saw that will do it. I have seen this Metabo PHF 255 - will it do what I want? Is a cheaper model such as PK 300 ok?
See here
I need to make a decision this week, I am looking at this type of saw simply because it appears to be what I need in a single pakage. I looked at Festool but the range of attatchments and options was bewildering and confusing. I emailed a firm asking for their advice on what I should choose from the Festool range but they didn't reply. They won't get my trade. I got the same response from another firm selling the Metabo mentioned earlier. I get the impression they don't give a toss.

 

[Colin C]

Hi Chris

As you have looked at the Festool ( if you are going to be cutting 8"x 4" ), have you looked at the EZ systemor here at the forum the owner posts on.

Plus you will get help from others if you are not sure about some thing

 

[DomValente]

Chris, I've read your posts from last year and you mention a dovetail jig, not quite sure what kind of boxes you are making but if they are of ply and mdf it sounds as if they will be covered or painted do you need dovetails?
Have you allowed a seperate space for spraying and finishing.

You need a dimensioning saw with an outrigger if you are cutting large boards, it should be situated in the centre of the workshop with the maximum space possible around it for manoeuvering. A custom made trolley for moving the boards around would be useful, if you go for a smaller table saw then rollers for take off and on would be invaluable, unless you have an assistant.
Finally don't put all of your eggs in one basket, try and find some other product to make in case you lose contracts.

Good luck
Dom