What is this old Gauge?

[Stevekane]

Hi, my neighbour is sorting through her grandfathers tools, she is in her 80s and is still a very accomplished craftswoman and can turn her hand to pretty well anything, anyway she has a number of his tools all marked with his name and she asked me if I could free off this lovely old gauge for her and were wondering what it would have been used for? Hopefully there will be pictures below, its about 7inches long and there is the makers name and its made with such attention to detail, the steel bar has one bevelled edge and there is even a steel shoe to stop the thumb screw biteing in when your setting it. If she hadnt told me he was a carpenter I would have said its perhaps somthing to do with clockmaking/ engineering, but given his history is it perhaps a mortice depth gauge? Any ideas? It would be nice to be able to tell her what it is.
Steve.

 

[Argus]

A depth gauge of some kind.
Holtzapffel were a 19th C manufacturer of lathes and turning gear, mainly 'ornamental' turning which produced elaborate engineered designs.
Here's a reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzapffel

 

[CHJ]

Looks like a Bowl Depth gauge, ensures you do not go too deep and cut through the bottom of a hollow form.

 

[AndyT]

As well as the ornamental lathes they were famous for, Holtzapffel also sold a wide range of other tools. They were often beautifully made, aimed at the deep pocketed amateur. Today they are rare, collectable and valuable. That depth gauge is probably several hundred pounds worth.

 

[Stevekane]

Many thanks indeed for all your replies, I did have a brief look at the internet for Holtzapffel without any sucess but perhaps I misread the fancy script and spelt it wrongly. I will definitely look at the Wikipedia entry and then pass on the info about it and your ideas which do sound entirely plausable when I give it back to her later, and I will ask her if he was a wood turner too, she has asked me to sharpen some small wood carveing chisels which she is still useing and mentioned large turning chisels so I will follow this up.
I will let you know what I find out,,
Once again, many thanks,
Steve.

 

[MusicMan]

Holzapfel was a very famous firm. The son of the founder, Charles who later ran the company was also a very distinguished scholar, writing the Treatise on Turning and Mechanical Manipulation in five densely-packed volumes. They are an incredible resource for woodworking practices in the nineteenth century. They are all available for free online if you dig around.

It's a depth gauge, yes, but it doesn't make sense for a bowl depth gauge to be asymmetric. Possibly a huge connected with the ornamental turning lathes, where eccentric turning was used to create amazing patterns.

 

[Stevekane]

Hello again, I read the Wikipedia entry and then linked to the Holtzaffel website and Ive sent then a note, I also followed a link to the Society of Turners and for somone such as myself, happy to be making things out of old floorboards and the like, it was like entering another world,,well worth a look,,hopefully more to follow,,

 

[AndyT]

A quick eBay search for the name will reveal a similar depth gauge, plus some other tools, for a high - but possibly realistic - asking price.

 

[Stevekane]

Well Im not quite there yet but Ive had a reply from the Holtzaffel.org website and Ive sent over some photos, so Im hopeing to find out exactly what the gauge is for. However, looking at the sort of tools this firm was renowned for, I think its going to turn out to be a rather specialised gauge perhaps to do with very intricate turning, but I will post the results of my enquiries as soon as I get any,,speaking to the lady who owns it she tells me that she thought her grandfather was a carpenter,,but I dont think its going to be a carpenters tool,,but we’ll see.
Steve.

 

[AndyT]

I've seen similar tools described as being for a stone mason - that could be true.
These two online sellers seem to think so:

https://www.tooltique.co.uk/shop/vi...s-steel-depth-square-or-gauge-good-condition/
https://www.oldhandtools.co.uk/antique-brass-stonemasons-depth-gauge-or-depthing-square

 

[toolsntat]

A very nice item indeed
Here's the May 1909 Edward Preston Birmingham offerings. Note one is mortised through the head.
Does it have any measurements on it?
Cheers Andy

 

[Stevekane]

Well many thanks indeed to you both, its begining to look like a Stonemasons gauge, certainly very much the same tool, but I wonder if ultimately its “just a depth gauge“? When you think about it, if you want to make something to measure depth perhaps you end up with somthing like this, whether it be stone carving, wood turning or whatever? There are no measurements on it at all. Im still awaiting a reply from the Holtzhaffle org,,,
Once again, many thanks to you all and I will keep you updated,,
Steve.

 

[Stevekane]

Hi, well Ive just had this reply from the Holtzaffle “owners club”,,
Hi Steve,
the photos are helpful... The signature style makes me think this could be pre-1804 when Deyerlein joined the firm. Although the tool can be used as a square it is more likely to have been provided as a depth tool along with a lathe. The first two lathes were sold in 1795 which is probably the earliest possible. So 1796-1803 perhaps?

would it be ok with you if i include your photo on my signatures page here? manufacturing
best regards,
josh
What an incredible age and I suppose our friends carpenter grandfather picked it up and thought, thats a handy little tool and used it in whatever way he could.
Many thanks to you all for taking the trouble to think about it with me, Im now turning my attentions to making a couple of green oak shutter style windows,,
Steve.