What is a good finer Rip Saw

[tibi]

Hello,

I have a 28 inch 4TPI Tyzack Nonpareil rip saw, but I find it to be overkill for thinner stock. The cut is too coarse and the saw is difficult to start, so I only use it when necessary. What length and TPI do you recommend for finer cutting of thinner materials?

Thank you.

 

[clogs]

Bacho, Sweden make some nice saws...up your way....
dont use a hand saw really except to chop off the ends of tile lathes when on a roof...or cut a cement bag in 1/2.....everything else is cut on a table saw....
I suppose any fine tooth saw will do say 8-10TPI....I guess....
I'm sure Bacho will have a recomend TPI on their web site...

 

[tibi]

Bacho, Sweden make some nice saws...up your way....
dont use a hand saw really except to chop off the ends of tile lathes when on a roof...or cut a cement bag in 1/2.....everything else is cut on a table saw....
I suppose any fine tooth saw will do say 8-10TPI....I guess....
I'm sure Bacho will have a recomend TPI on their web site...

Thank you very much, but I will buy a sharpenable saw, so I must go vintage, unless I want to pay for some premium contemporary saw. I think Bahco does not make sharpenable saws anymore, just hardpoint.

 

[Jameshow]

I brought the spear and Jackson panel saw cuts well and not too expensive.

https://www.toolstop.co.uk/spear-ja...CBegnqFmRmvo6Thoc6HdvkQMBlNA91oYaAkVyEALw_wcB
The s&j tenon saw however still dosen't cut great.

Cheers James

 

[JobandKnock]

If you want a resharpenable rip saw you probably either need to buy a modern, very expensive saw, or retooth a vintage one. Not used a modern Spear & Jackson - thec1960s ones were still good, but in the 1970s some ***** industrial designer redesigned the handles so they were too small for anyone with big hsnds or wearing gloves to get their hands into

 

[D_W]

for ripping down to stuff around 1/2" thick, a 6 point saw is nice. You have a coarse tooth saw and with the pair could do almost anything. If you're ripping other stuff from thin stock, you might want to change over a cross cut saw to 8 tpi or so, but most saws finer than 6 will have thinner plates and may not be that great for ripping.

If you get a 6 and want to rip stuff thinner than the plus side of 1/2", you can get by changing the angle of the saw to be a little less aggressive (otherwise, it'll be hard on the back side of a cut straight through).

Find an older saw that's in good shape with good teeth and has most of its plate width and not much rust. It'll cost the same as a new saw and be far superior.

 

[Droogs]

It all depends on what you mean by "finer". If you mean better quality then that is really down to personal preference really, decided by what aspects of the saw such as size, TPI, handle design and even blade shape you prefer. If you are talking about making smoother faced kerfs left after you have sawn the rip that is much more down to how the ripsaw has been set up by you rather than by make and size.
The first aspect to consider is the TPI, a higher count will mean a smoother face to the saw cut but also mean that a lot less is removed with each stroke equalling a lot more elbow grease being needed to achieve the cut.
The second aspect that a lot of people don't realise is that the amount of "set" on the saw has a massive impact on the quality of the surface left after the sawing is done and on how easy it is to actually move the saw in the cut while using it.

The third aspect is probably the most important is is entirely controlled by you and that is technique, which only comes with practice.

So when you take all this into consideration as long as the saw blade itself is actually straight, then it doesn't matter really as to the make, model or size of the saw other than it be long enough to reach the other side of the board you want to rip. A high TPI on a wide set saw will not result in a much better finished face than a low TPI narrow set saw unless you have the technique to apply the advantages that either setup will provide.

I have cut veneers by hand that are 1/32" (0.7mm~) using a 6 tpi almost zero set 24" Diston D8. It was a slow slow and painful experience taking a lot of concentration and the application of the correct techniques, such as sawing from both sides and swapping every inch or so to ensure accuracy for thickness. I don't do it now as I made a frame saw which is much better suited for this purpose with a 12 TPI and narrow set blade sharpened to a Rip profile and hand set by me using the appropriate eclipse saw set. Oh the saw set is also important as they come in various styles you just have to figure which suites you best, if it is the Eclipse style then remember they come with different sizes of pin for a range of size of saw. Using the wrong one really does affect the shape of the tooth and where it curves into the set and can make a big difference as to how efficient and easy the sawcut will be.

hth

 

[tibi]

I brought the spear and Jackson panel saw cuts well and not too expensive.

https://www.toolstop.co.uk/spear-ja...CBegnqFmRmvo6Thoc6HdvkQMBlNA91oYaAkVyEALw_wcB
The s&j tenon saw however still dosen't cut great.

Cheers James

I know that this saw is often recommended by Paul Sellers. Last time, I have looked at amazon.de, 7TPI version was not available, but now it is. So that is a good tip for me. (I am reluctant to buy from the UK, as you have to pay the import fees for everything now, so I try to buy the same product from the EU, if possible).

 

[tibi]

for ripping down to stuff around 1/2" thick, a 6 point saw is nice. You have a coarse tooth saw and with the pair could do almost anything. If you're ripping other stuff from thin stock, you might want to change over a cross cut saw to 8 tpi or so, but most saws finer than 6 will have thinner plates and may not be that great for ripping.

If you get a 6 and want to rip stuff thinner than the plus side of 1/2", you can get by changing the angle of the saw to be a little less aggressive (otherwise, it'll be hard on the back side of a cut straight through).

Find an older saw that's in good shape with good teeth and has most of its plate width and not much rust. It'll cost the same as a new saw and be far superior.

Hello David,

I have a 7TPI vintage crosscut saw currently and after sharpening and setting, I like it very much. I have bought a cheap 8TPI hardpoint rip saw with Teflon coating just as a temporary solution, but the thing just does not cut straight and is slower than my 7TPI vintage crosscut saw when used for ripping. I can cut much straighter with 4TPI big rip saw than with this hardpoint one. I will probably go with the 7TPI Spear and Jackson mentioned above. The only thing that I do not like is the CNC-made handle. They look ugly compared to vintage hand-crafted handles. However, all, but premium boutique saws have those ugly handles nowadays.

 

[tibi]

It all depends on what you mean by "finer". If you mean better quality then that is really down to personal preference really, decided by what aspects of the saw such as size, TPI, handle design and even blade shape you prefer. If you are talking about making smoother faced kerfs left after you have sawn the rip that is much more down to how the ripsaw has been set up by you rather than by make and size.
The first aspect to consider is the TPI, a higher count will mean a smoother face to the saw cut but also mean that a lot less is removed with each stroke equalling a lot more elbow grease being needed to achieve the cut.
The second aspect that a lot of people don't realise is that the amount of "set" on the saw has a massive impact on the quality of the surface left after the sawing is done and on how easy it is to actually move the saw in the cut while using it.

The third aspect is probably the most important is is entirely controlled by you and that is technique, which only comes with practice.

So when you take all this into consideration as long as the saw blade itself is actually straight, then it doesn't matter really as to the make, model or size of the saw other than it be long enough to reach the other side of the board you want to rip. A high TPI on a wide set saw will not result in a much better finished face than a low TPI narrow set saw unless you have the technique to apply the advantages that either setup will provide.

I have cut veneers by hand that are 1/32" (0.7mm~) using a 6 tpi almost zero set 24" Diston D8. It was a slow slow and painful experience taking a lot of concentration and the application of the correct techniques, such as sawing from both sides and swapping every inch or so to ensure accuracy for thickness. I don't do it now as I made a frame saw which is much better suited for this purpose with a 12 TPI and narrow set blade sharpened to a Rip profile and hand set by me using the appropriate eclipse saw set. Oh the saw set is also important as they come in various styles you just have to figure which suites you best, if it is the Eclipse style then remember they come with different sizes of pin for a range of size of saw. Using the wrong one really does affect the shape of the tooth and where it curves into the set and can make a big difference as to how efficient and easy the sawcut will be.

hth

Hello Droogs,

I am sorry for being ambiguous. By finer, I meant smoother kerf and easier to start. I have been now working with both hardwoods and softwoods. I have originally hammered all my saws to have as little set as possible, but with softwoods (and some hardwoods) they bound a lot. So I needed to increase the set. I just increased the set on my tenon crosscut saw from no. 10 to no.7 on my saw set and now it cuts great both hardwoods and softwoods alike without binding. I may try to reduce the set on 4TPI saw a little, as I did not alter it after purchase and it is rather wide now.

 

[D_W]

It may be harder to find good used saws in slovakia - if the spear saw sharpens easily and holds its teeth and isn't too bendy, then you'll have a good rip saw.

combination tooth hardpoint saws are never set for rip, so if you're going to do much ripping, they are a complete dead end. As you've found, the need to sever rather than rasp or side slice off wood makes for a physical difference that can't be overcome with coatings and hardpoints. For ripping, a rip saw is it, and nothing else will do.

All of the site saws in the last 75 years are probably set assuming that everything hand sawn is cross cutting or plastic pipe.

The go-to here in the states for a rip saw is a disston D8 (they can still be had in good shape for $50 if patient), but it looks like they're not quite as common everywhere else in the world. One made in the early 1900s is as good of a rip saw as anything ever made, even though they're common.

 

[MikeK]

I know that this saw is often recommended by Paul Sellers. Last time, I have looked at amazon.de, 7TPI version was not available, but now it is. So that is a good tip for me. (I am reluctant to buy from the UK, as you have to pay the import fees for everything now, so I try to buy the same product from the EU, if possible).

You might want to consider something like this 12 TPI saw from Dictum in Germany. At €54.90, it is more expensive than the S&J saw, but is available in the EU and can be resharpened.

https://www.dictum.com/en/frame-hand-saws-baad/turbo-cut-panel-saw-330-712090
The flat rate shipping to Slovakia is €7.95 for orders under €178.50. Shipping is free for orders over that. I looked at the delivery options for Toolstop, and they are not shipping outside the UK.

 

[tibi]

You might want to consider something like this 12 TPI saw from Dictum in Germany. At €54.90, it is more expensive than the S&J saw, but is available in the EU and can be resharpened.

https://www.dictum.com/en/frame-hand-saws-baad/turbo-cut-panel-saw-330-712090
The flat rate shipping to Slovakia is €7.95 for orders under €178.50. Shipping is free for orders over that. I looked at the delivery options for Toolstop, and they are not shipping outside the UK.

Thank you Mike, I have already seen this saw, but it is too short for me. It is almost as short as Ryoba. I would rather buy a 550 - 660 mm saw instead, so I can cut with fewer strokes.

 

[D_W]

for ripping, you really don't want a saw below about 26", unless it's required to fit in a shorter box. Even with fine teeth, 26" is the minimum or you'll be buckling it or feeling like you're short stroking only. Neither is pleasant.

 

[tibi]

It may be harder to find good used saws in slovakia - if the spear saw sharpens easily and holds its teeth and isn't too bendy, then you'll have a good rip saw.

combination tooth hardpoint saws are never set for rip, so if you're going to do much ripping, they are a complete dead end. As you've found, the need to sever rather than rasp or side slice off wood makes for a physical difference that can't be overcome with coatings and hardpoints. For ripping, a rip saw is it, and nothing else will do.

All of the site saws in the last 75 years are probably set assuming that everything hand sawn is cross cutting or plastic pipe.

The go-to here in the states for a rip saw is a disston D8 (they can still be had in good shape for $50 if patient), but it looks like they're not quite as common everywhere else in the world. One made in the early 1900s is as good of a rip saw as anything ever made, even though they're common.

Disstons in decent shape would cost me 200 EUR - 250 EUR with shipping and import fees now, so that is not as good as it used to be. So I will try the Spear and Jackson now and if it is not good, I will buy something vintage in 7-8 TPI range.

 

[Orraloon]

I was given 2 of the Spear and Jackson saws by someone who was about to chuck them out as they had gone blunt. Yes the handles are ugly so I reshaped them a bit. I did not need 2 7tpi crosscuts so I resharpened one as a rip and it is good to have something a bit less aggressive for smaller work.

Find a saw with the tpi you want and take a file to it.
Regards
John

 

[D_W]

Disstons in decent shape would cost me 200 EUR - 250 EUR with shipping and import fees now, so that is not as good as it used to be. So I will try the Spear and Jackson now and if it is not good, I will buy something vintage in 7-8 TPI range.

Yeah, too much. I'm sure there are good saws there somewhere as at some point, people would've made a living with them.

 

[Schummie]

Why not a saw from Japan, they are low in price and have a very fine saw blade.
They are so low in price that you don't have to sharp them.

 

[Jacob]

Hello,

I have a 28 inch 4TPI Tyzack Nonpareil rip saw, but I find it to be overkill for thinner stock. The cut is too coarse and the saw is difficult to start, so I only use it when necessary. What length and TPI do you recommend for finer cutting of thinner materials?

Thank you.

How thin thinner stock? You are using it for ripping down the grain (not across) I assume?

 

[tibi]

How thin thinner stock? You are using it for ripping down the grain (not across) I assume?

For me thin stock is 12 - 25 mm, anything above will be cut with 4TPI. I will use it for ripping down the grain of course. I have already purchased S&J 24 inch 7TPI saws. Price was good, so I ordered 2. I will leave one as crosscut and I will resharpen one as rip. They will come in a week.