What do you charge - bathroom locks/doors

[Adam W.]

I'm always amazed by how many doors some people seem to hang in a day. I could maybe do 5 on a new build if everything was spot on, nothing in the way and I was all jigged up but I'm normally doing replacements in a customers house and there is no chance of me doing 5.

This is true. I had to fit an oak internal door to an existing frame in a friends house. Nothing was square or true and the frame was twisted to add to the fun.

It took me a long time to get the door to work properly, which is why I now charge by the day and like to have at least a week on site.

No half days for me, as it's a waste of time.

 

[BucksDad]

Maybe the trades are wising up to what they are actually worth.

Advertise tomorrow for a contract project manager to start next week who charge £4-600/day and you’d probably get 100+ CVs and they’ll sit at home on Teams all day and update Excel.

Try to find a trade to start next week on something…

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I would expect a competent self employed craftsman to make a reasonable living - a little more than the average UK salary of £33k. Say £40k. Although I am/was capable of most of the work they do, it is clear they work a lot faster and harder. Assume:

• 200 days work a year - 40 full 5 day weeks after allowing for holidays, training, estimating, gaps between jobs, sickness etc.
• need to pay for own NI and pension provision - add 25% to salary
• need to cover the costs of van, tools, insurance as a minimum if using home as base - £10k

Total the craftsman needs to charge £40k+£10k (NI, pension)+£10k (van etc)=£60k. £300 per day.

In a good year income may get to £50k. In a slow year (economy, bad debts, uninsured losses etc) may struggle to get to £30k.

To me, having had substantial work done on new house £300 a day seems a lot - but rationally it is fair and approximates to the bills I paid for different trades. Finding trades to respond quickly at the moment is difficult - electricians, plasterers seem booked months ahead.

 

[Mjward]

Agree with the maths there. We are talking decent tradesmen, ie a certain minimum quality. £300 a day, broadly speaking is a fair average rate.

to the source of my point here, what I loathe is the add ons ie someone quotes theoretically for £300 for a day's labour but then adds substantial extras, £150-200 to carry out parts of the job that still have the whole thing done in a day.

this is an across trades issue. The electrician who charges to change 10 sockets priced at a day rate of £300 then wants an extra £150 to change a light fitting done within same day, the plumber with 10 rads and then making a quick tap change.

its not about getting paid for services provided, it's the common rip-off nature of the incremental "because I can get away with it"

 

[johnnyb]

in every industry variations are charged at much higher rate...always. get another person to do it if your not happy. I'm assuming these trades tell you the price beforehand. as I mentioned if you have a relationship these costs are usually waived. few good trades are making a fortune working for Joe public as there so " tricksy" to work for. often cowboys are better suited to Joe publics expectations tbh.

 

[Adam W.]

Which is why I only work for a reputable contractor now.

 

[Pedronicus]

When I was working I used to get a fair number of "while you are here" job requests. The faces used to be a picture when I quoted a price for doing said extras!

 

[Mjward]

in every industry variations are charged at much higher rate...always. get another person to do it if your not happy. I'm assuming these trades tell you the price beforehand. as I mentioned if you have a relationship these costs are usually waived. few good trades are making a fortune working for Joe public as there so " tricksy" to work for. often cowboys are better suited to Joe publics expectations tbh.

Think your comment is far removed from reality. Homeowners simply don't have enough regular work to form a relationship. There is no way you honestly believe the majority of Joe public are "tricksy". My experience however is that the vast majority of trades are.

 

[Ollie78]

I'm always amazed by how many doors some people seem to hang in a day. I could maybe do 5 on a new build if everything was spot on, nothing in the way and I was all jigged up but I'm normally doing replacements in a customers house and there is no chance of me doing 5.

Yes but you would be doing a good job I assume. The state I have seen some work it's no wonder they do 8 a day.

 

[thetyreman]

 

[HOJ]

Nice one @thetyreman

I fitted 6 replacement door's in a day

On the basis of full disclosure I'll tell you all how much I charged for doing this job

Spoiler

£0.00

for lots of reasons, which I wont explain here but needless to say they and I are happy, and I'll be there again tomorrow doing some more work on the same basis.

 

[eribaMotters]

I would question the speed at which your dad got a fine.
The formula for calculating speed allowance is (Speed limit + 10%) + 2mph. So, for a 30mph, the trigger is (30+3) + 2 = 35mph.
Vehicle speedos are set high to register a slightly higher speed than true speed.

The police, or the speed enforcement operatives, have to take into account the accuracy of speedometers, thus the allowance.
I have tried and tested this allowance on fixed and average cameras.

I think you may find the calculation is not the case in all counties. The 10 % rule will apply but I thought the +2mph may be +3mph or in fact nothing, depending upon the county.

Colin

 

[cowtown_eric]

I used to charge 100$ cdn/door for multiples, 150 for 0nsies/twosies, worked well for me in those cases

Probably 30-40% of em went easily, the rest ....welll
door jambs twisted, out of plumb, square,
new flooring - cut down door, reblocking sometimes
Keys lost, have to pick lock to remove some locksets, rekey new locks to match rest of house.
Have to go back and re-fit a whole house of doors due to an 80%relative humidity (didn't believe in venting the clothes dryer outside)

Time and materials for architectural entry door..???

but just think how you'd manage the risks of installing a full mortise special order lock (which turned out to be missing parts!)that yu've never seen before in a custom build 6k$ exterior door!

If all goes really well and easy-peasy, I can give client a break on estimate, which is always more appreciated than upping the price

Eric

 

[Yorkieguy]

I think you may find the calculation is not the case in all counties. The 10 % rule will apply but I thought the +2mph may be +3mph or in fact nothing, depending upon the county.

Colin

That's so. This may be of interest:

UK speed camera tolerances revealed

Anyone who uses that formula is treating speed limits not as 'limits' within which to drive according to the road conditions, but as a 'target' to aim for. There's no sense in it because it has no bearing on journey time. Speed limits are widely ignored because enforcement is minimal and random. Driving responsibly isn't complicated. If you are doing anything while driving a car which - if you were on your driving test would cause you to fail - then you'd best not do it. Yet thousands of drivers end up with 12 points on their licence, (four standard 3-point tickets), and face a six-month disqualification. Not 'bad luck' but 'bad driving' and a 'bad attitude' to road safety.

Only this week we hear that the present Home Secretary - when she was the Attorney General - has had a speeding conviction, and also the Archbishop of Canterbury for exceeding the 20 MPH limit by 25%). In a way, quite uplifting because in many countries, I don't doubt that for the high & mighty, such instances would be swept under the carpet.

Really, off topic for this thread.

 

[schnapps95]

Always a mixed bag when it comes to pricing a job. I see only two basic ways of charging, day rate or a price for the job. But if your job will only take three hours then it might cost you more, ie the guys day rate simply because it is not worth them traveling to the next job and starting it. As for fitting door furniture, it is not much harder to add a door lock because it is essentially just another handle and with jigs it takes little time so they are milking it by charging the extra £50 a door. I am no expert when it comes to hanging a door and fitting the furniture but with a Trend lock jig and their hinge jig I cut the hinge recesses with my 1/4 Bosch GOF600 and had to use my larger T10 for the tubular latches as I needed the depth. I also knocked up a simple jig to locate the cross drillings for the spindles and it was not hard, took me an extra twenty minutes for the door lock so for someone who fits lots of doors then it would have happened in the blink of an eye.

Anyone used one of these drilling jigs,

some interesting videos VIDEOS - Morticer

Yes used one years ago before they were available to the public we were fitting doors at a local to us HMYOI and they gave us one which was larger than they ones now available as the prison doors were thicker. When i rang Souber to purchase another one they wanted to know were i had got it from fortunately the prison confirmed they had given me it. We now own two of the modern ones and we would'nt be without them.

 

[Spectric]

We now own two of the modern ones and we would'nt be without them.

So you would recommend them over using a router and jig ?

 

[cowtown_eric]

I've got a really old Stanley morticing tool, and that souber one looks

1. ever so much portable
2 ever so much lighter!
3 didn't check the price, but it shouldbe more economical

 

[schnapps95]

So you would recommend them over using a router and jig ?

Definitely in my opinion no contest

 

[Spectric]

I will go a re watch the video's and see if I have a home for one.

 

[Mjward]

I normally try and look for the positives but struggling here. Due to a rotator cuff tear had to pull the trigger on a tradesman fitting the oak doors. Went through checkatrade, found best reviewed etc....

I could talk about the butcher approach to hinges/latches.

I could talk about the butcher approach to cutting the doors to size.

I could talk about the use of filler to hide error cuts in new oak doors in pretty plumb frames.

I could talk about the lack of pilot holes and bored out screw heads at random angles.

I could talk about none of the hinges being recessed into the frame and double recessed into the door.

But...


What's killing me. Is whilst applying Osmo door oil I can hear the doors "wobble". And then it hits me, this well reviewed "joiner and carpenter" has drilled the deep bathroom latches into the mid mortice and tenon joint.

I'm at an anger level well beyond livid but just want to sanity check, before i approach the tradesman suggesting the doors are replaced and fitting charges refunded that I'm not being unreasonable here?