What are the basic 'dogs' I need for my new bench? Theres alot of choice!!

[Gazzarose]

Evening all,

After watching Peter Millards Portable bench video yesterday, I've decided its the perfect solution for my wood working needs (at least for now) as it suits the multi-purpose nature of my garage/workshop that needs to swap from working on a car, to working on a motorbike to hacking up tree carcasses at the drop of a hat (mainly depending on what has broke in the previous week!). I'm going to buy his plans and buy rather than make the CNC MFT style top but at the moment I can't justify going as far as the Bench dogs Rail Square, at least for now, so I just need a basic set of 'Dogs' to get me going and let do some nice square cuts. I've just been browsing a few sites and the choice is bewildering, especially given I've never used that sort of system and they all seem to have specific uses that I don't understand. The main thing will be to be able to cut reliably square crosscuts and some sort of fench and stop to make repeatable cuts. When it comes to buying new toys, I mean essential tools, a few times in the past I've gone over the top and ended up with things I've never used. As much as I'd like to just buy a big set of dogs I want to try and be a bit sensible and not spend money I don't need to, I've just got too many hobbies all taking money from an ever dwindling pot! Are there things you regreted buying (or not buying) when you started out?

Sorry for the ramblings, 2 years of watching track saw and MFT videos in anticipation of building my workshop have left me wanting everything, but knowing how to actually use nothing!

Thanks

 

[robgul]

Have a good look around on ebay - I bought an MFT top that came with a set of 4 "free" dogs

You may have already done so but have a good old browse at Peter Millard's past videos - he's the "dog master" when it comes to MFTs, dogs and clamps etc - as well as the processes/uses and methodology.

 

[Dee J]

You don't need any of it to produce most work. A flat solid bench to is a good start. A basic woodworkers bench vice is useful. Add in a simple bench hook (homemade) for crosscutting and some sort of end stop (homemade) to plane up against. The bench can be whatever heavy timber you can find for an underframe with a firedoor blank or a couple of layer of ply or mdf for the top. The are lots of fun toys and nice-to-haves, especially if you watch American youtubers, but a lot can be achieved with a little kit.

 

[marcros]

you are correct, there are endless options out there now.

I would go with a bench dogs set, because the fence looks brilliant. the website doesn't, however and I find it hard work. Benchdogs seem to be an innovative company and they keep building on their systems.

ideally, you would have the Benchdogs fence kit, 1200mm Fence System MK2 and a set of guide rail dogs Guide Rail Dogs • Grooved.

 

[DBT85]

I bought the benchdogs fence which comes with the 2 dogs to secure it and the flagstop. I added a couple of their tall "b-dogs" at the same time but I found that I could rarely use one at the front as the tracksaw motor would catch it (when cutting say 18mm sheet), so more recently I sprung for the smallest of the quad dogs sets and a couple of extra pair of "bases" (the bit with the o-rings on).

I had to buy the under fence rail recently as I bought my actual fence a while ago before they added the under rail support so its cheaper now than what I've spent in all.

https://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/fence-systems/products/1000mm-fence-system-mk2-leverhttps://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/quad-dogs/products/super-quad-dogs-mini-systainer-set
If you didn't want to spring for the quad dogs, a set of these would work fine. Or just buy the 40mm quad dogs on their own.
https://benchdogs.co.uk/collections/bench-dogs/products/bench-dogs-set
The nice thing about the quad dogs and others like it are that the o'rings will expand to fill the gap if the holes in the MFT start to open up.

Also don;t forget Peter has a discount code you can use.

More importantly, hows the workshop coming along?

 

[marcros]

you could save a few quid by getting a set of long and short dogs, and some rail clips. However, then you doubt get the ability to make repeat cuts and when you want to upgrade you discard £40-50 quids worth of gear.

 

[Gazzarose]

Thank you all for your replies.

It's Peter Millards videos (via a couple of Peter Parfits) that sent me down this rabbit hole of the tracksaw system. I've always enjoyed a bit of wood work, but one thing that has always frustrated me was getting cuts straight square and accurate, especially with the motley collection of hand me down power tools I've had access to up until now.

At the start of the original lockdown with my wife working from home and no desk, I built her this using a some 25mm ply left over from the bathroom floor, some mdf skirting, couple of bits of 4x2 a 30 yr old circular saw with a worn out blade and an old 1/4 router. I had to cut the line close, then trim it to size with the router. It took me the best part of 3 days, what with trying to entertain a 3 yr old at the same time, but I was quite pleased with the outcome although a bit frustrated that I could have done better given a decent work place (At the time my garage was just a few holes for the foundations) and some decent kit.

The Bench dogs fence looks great, as does the guide rail dogs. They look just the ticket so get me going. My plan is to order a CNC cut 600x1200 top from the guys that Peter Millard got his from and temporary attach it to my old workmate to make the rest of the portable bench.

As for my workshop, Its ultimately going to be home to a Mk3 MX5, my Enduro motorbike (possibly another bike too as time goes on) as well as squeeze in a bit of wood working. I'll be happy if I can disappear and have the choice of changing the oil in the car, change tyres on the bike or make some little coasters on the wood bench while my wife is putting my boy to bed.

Its just shy of 5m, 7m long and a ceiling of about 2.5m so plenty of space for one hobby, but is going to get a bit congested with everything in there, so a dedicated wood bench I can pack away and put to one side will be great. I'm going to have another fixed bench under the window, but don't really want it full of MFT holes if I'm rebuilding a bike engine and vice versa I don't want a wood bench covered in oil!

 

[DBT85]

Looks like a nice space and you're right it's going to get busy in there. Oh how I long for a place to work on the car. I have to make do with a gravel driveway and it's all grey. Good luck finding that bolt that just pinged out!

I also feel your pain. My little girl only turned 3 in August so the first 2 months of lockdown were fun. Achieved absolutely sod all!

Its ultimately going to be home to a Mk3 MX5

My condolences #StupidS2000/MX5 rivalry

 

[marcros]

you may find that the workmate isnt that good as a base. I can't remember if mine was too small a footprint and was a bit tippy, or whether it was a nuisance not having enough access to underneath. Either way, it didn't work for me (same model as yours I think too)

I would budget to make or buy a couple of sawhorses and a couple of lengths of CLS between them. you can always try the workmate first. I have 2 of these FatMax Telescopic Saw Horses (Twin Pack) by Stanley - 1-92-980 but the price must have gone up, or I must have got a good offer because I wouldn't have paid that. If your ground is level, there are much cheaper options, but I was working on a project outside at the time.

 

[Gazzarose]

Looks like a nice space and you're right it's going to get busy in there. Oh how I long for a place to work on the car. I have to make do with a gravel driveway and it's all grey. Good luck finding that bolt that just pinged out!

I also feel your pain. My little girl only turned 3 in August so the first 2 months of lockdown were fun. Achieved absolutely sod all!


My condolences #StupidS2000/MX5 rivalry

I'll be honest I'd have loved a S2000. I almost bought one about 12 years ago, but I bought a house instead! The MX5 has been my wifes daily for the last 7 years, so a S2000 would have been over kill, but I've grown to love the cheap and relatively slow speed thrills that come with the MX5 (in my defense its a 2.0 Sport so not too slow!) and now that we've got the garage for it to live in we're looking to get her a little hatchback. The little Mazda served her well with just the one sprog, we even took it to the pram shop and bought one that fitted in the boot, but with the very real possibility of a 2nd coming along in the next year or so it's days of being a daily driver are numbered! Then it can be a nice little project car for me and my boy to fiddle with. I'm already eyeing up coilovers and exhausts!

 

[Gazzarose]

you may find that the workmate isnt that good as a base. I can't remember if mine was too small a footprint and was a bit tippy, or whether it was a nuisance not having enough access to underneath. Either way, it didn't work for me (same model as yours I think too)

I would budget to make or buy a couple of sawhorses and a couple of lengths of CLS between them. you can always try the workmate first. I have 2 of these FatMax Telescopic Saw Horses (Twin Pack) by Stanley - 1-92-980 but the price must have gone up, or I must have got a good offer because I wouldn't have paid that. If your ground is level, there are much cheaper options, but I was working on a project outside at the time.

If the workmate doesn't work out, I'll either knocked something together out of whatever left from building the garage, or carry on working on the floor, if nothing else it'll spur me on to get the bench built!

 

[Nelsun]

I've been around the houses over several years and bought dogs from both sides of the pond. Some are tight, some are wiggly and some need a hammer to get out. Having gotten fed up with all that I settled on Benchdogs quad dogs with chamfer collars and Parf dogs (the ones with built in chamfer collars) as a cheaper option.

They both have an identical outer diameter down to a flee's whisker and the chamfer collars make for a good solid engagement. They're also 20mm shafts (watch it!) above the table, so perfect for rail clips, collars, jigs and wotnot.

If you do go for dogs with chamfered collars you can do the chamfering of the holes with a router - you don't need the manual UJK chamfering tool... and your wrists will thank you for it too!

 

[Cabinetman]

I know I’m going to sound like a Luddite, but until very recently (on here) I had never heard of a track saw or an MFT thingy, I have been building and making everything and anything you could possibly think of for donkeys years and never needed them, what’s wrong with a handsaw and a sawhorse ? That desk for your Misses would only have taken one or two hours with basic hand tools (I sympathise about looking after a three-year-old at the same time) please don’t get me wrong, it’s not my intention to criticise, just to say you don’t need to spend a lot of money on a CNCMFT, very few things need to be cut quite that straight, at quite such an exquisite degree angle. Nice new space for a workshop by the way. Just, please don’t listen to some of the experts, you can spend so much time setting up some of these clever bits of expensive kit when the job could be done so simply in other ways.
Dogs have their place, I have one or two, I also have my new Gramercy rought iron bench hooks which I love using.
I wish you all the very best in your new workspace. Ian

 

[petermillard]

Some good advice above, and totally understand re. the baffling array of dogs available. There should have been a couple of sets available from Benchdogs.co.uk to go with the video, but they‘ve been hit by Covid and are well behind, unfortunately. They were based around the rail square though - as was my bench build - so probably not a lot of help if you’re not going that route.

I explain the pros and cons of rail sq vs MFT top in this video but it all boils down to the fact that you need something to keep the rail square against, and something for the workpiece to bear against. Simplest, cheapest way with the MFT-style top is to get a pair of taller dogs for the rail, and a pair of shorter ones for the work.

The taller ones go at either end of a column of holes, and the shorter ones in the corresponding row. It can be useful to have a pair of the little spring clips mentioned above to keep the rail snug against the taller dogs - it’s easy for the workpiece/rail combo to get out from under when you’re concentrating on making the cut - I showed a pair of the UJK ones from Axminster in the video, and they worked well. Also had a very fancy magnetic set from a German company, but they required steel dogs to work.

As explained in the above vid, the disadvantage of this set-up is that your maximum crosscut is restricted to the depth between the column of dog-holes - 550mm in most regular MFT tops, though they can of course be used in ‘portrait’ mode.

Hope that helps clear some of the fog of bafflement. As an aside, if you tag me in on a post - put the @ in front of my name in the body of a post - then I’ll be notified about it, and will be better placed to respond. Cheers, P

 

[JamieT]

Having moved into a new house 12 months ago I’ve got a few projects on the go, the biggest so far has been some built in alcove cupboards and shelves based on Freebird Interiors designs - in fact, I still need to buyAlistairacoffee. I cut things up with a circular saw and home made guide and I’m really happy with the results, it’s not perfect but the whole house is squiffy so it’s fine and the Mrs likes it.

I want better accuracy on future projects though so I’m now in the process of building a new workbench to improve my straight and squareness. After many, many YouTube vids I’ve gone with a CNC MFT top with a 2x4” built base and bought a track and adapter for my saw which is working great so far. I still need to decide on clamping so I’m managing with a few Irwin quick grips for now, I’m playing with the idea of installing my Bosch router into it and adding a fence which would give me some extra routing options and improve accuracy but can’t find a plate which goes with my router currently.

Well jeal of your workspace, I’m in a single garage I share with most of the spiders in Shropshire and some boxes we haven’t unpacked yet but I don’t have a bike and car to work on. If you wanted a solid top surface you could always stick a removable top layer of mdf/ply. Anyway, I bought the dogs with the top - Replacement Perforated Festool Type MFT /3-LP Top they work great

 

[pe2dave]

@petermillard missed out his video on a home made square for the track. A good and cheap stopgap until you can buy the fencedogs one. Would make a nice first project.
With the size of your MFT, I'd offer caution on using a workmate for support? Couple of trestles or sawhorses and some 4x2 would support it better.
Enjoy

 

[OldWood]

You know I feel somethings are missing in my life, and it would seem that bench dogs are the latest.

Now you would have thought that in over 60 years of wood working I would have either have invented such things for myslelf, or been totally unable to proceed with with a major house rebuild that went on in that time, let alone the furniture that I have made.

I'm also mentally going over the mess that is my professional brother's workshop and I really do not think he uses them either.

So for me this thread is just a waste of space and really does just play into the hands of those who make such things and have to advertise them to those who sadly do not know any better.

 

[Doug71]

One of the CNC tops, 2 tall dogs and 2 short dogs is a great starting point, it will do all you need and you can build on it from there.

https://www.cncdesign.co.uk/replacement-perforated-festool-type-mft3lp-top.html
I managed for years without any kind of bench dogs set up, I didn't know I needed it as it didn't exist!

Fast forward to present day and I could not imagine life without my track saw and bench dogs, the speed and accuracy you can achieve with such a simple set up is something that you could only dream of 15 years ago.

A DIYer in their garage can now spend about £200 on a saw, MDF top and dogs and get the same results as a professional panel saw costing a few thousand pounds that wouldn't even fit in said garage.

 

[pe2dave]

Declared bias:
I'd add Peter Millards parallel guides for repeat cuts, two tall dogs and clips to hold the track and his ply square as a starter kit.... OK, what I'll be setting up with.

 

[Gazzarose]

Thank you all for your extra replies today, I've only just had chance to check the thread and was greeted by a handful of new replies which for some reason my phone didn't tell me about today.

I've just ordered the CNC top in MR with the sacrificial strip so thats a start and I'm having a mooch about on Bench dogs site as we speak. I think I'll probably go with a pair of short and a pair of long for now and probably add a pair of the UJK rail clips. That should get me going for now, even just being able to quickly make reliable squares will help me a lot.

I've spent today ripping strips of hardwood ply for shelves using my 3m rail and it's definately one of those things I wish I had 15 years ago. I hated trying to get long straight cuts, but a tracksaw is a revelation. Even just my slightly over engineered shelves make it the purchase worth it, the accuracy of the tracksaw coupled with using the rail as a straight edge for my router have let my idea for my shelves come to life.