what are CLIFTON doing.....

[Paul Chapman]

Please note, I never mentioned the two piece cap iron!

I hope that means you intend to retain it. In my view, the two-piece (or Stay-set) cap iron is the best designed cap iron ever. I have them fitted to all my bevel-down bench planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Andrea]

There again, Italians designed Vespas and Lambrettas - ridiculous looking things.

Phil, do you see, down there, the gates of hell, which have opened when you pressed the submit button? ;-)

 

[jimi43]

There again, Italians designed Vespas and Lambrettas - ridiculous looking things.

Phil, do you see, down there, the gates of hell, which have opened when you pressed the submit button? ;-)

Fear not Andrea...he's probably and aging rocker with a Norton and leathers...his fingers would have stuck to the keyboard owing to the quantity of oil seeping from his pores! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

(only joshing ya Phil...unless...ever been to Brighton?! :mrgreen: )

 

[Andrea]

I love my Alfa

And after this confession we can deduce that masochists live all over the world.

P.S.
Sorry for these OT jokes. I shut up now.

 

[jimi43]

EXHIBIT A....ITALIAN SPEEDBOAT...

EXHIBIT B....BRITISH SPEEDBOAT...

EXHIBIT A.... ITALIAN CAR

EXHIBIT B....BRITISH CAR...

...note the sleek square steering wheel...

However we do make this....

So....um...we win cos that trumps the entire production of Italy in one go!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Yes...sorry...Andrea you were saying!? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Please note, I never mentioned the two piece cap iron!

I hope that means you intend to retain it. In my view, the two-piece (or Stay-set) cap iron is the best designed cap iron ever. I have them fitted to all my bevel-down bench planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Actually, I think it was me who first mentioned the stayset capiron back on page 2; perhaps I'd better expand on my remarks a little.

I agree with Paul that it's a cracking little bit of kit. Mine is fitted to a 'Victor' (Clifton before they were stamped Clifton) iron in my Record 07, and between them they've transformed the plane. For work in which a very close capiron setting isn't necessary (jack and try work, and smoothing of milder timbers) the two-piece works very well indeed, and saves a bit of faffing about when sharpening, too.

However, some people have mentioned in the past that when a very close capiron setting is desired (mainly for smoothingduties on wild-grained and other difficult timbers) the two-piece has just enough slop to make it hard to get a setting close enough to the cutting iron edge. (There are also a few who seem to be unable to remove the iron and capiron from the plane without losing the nose-piece under the bench - not a problem I've encountered, but maybe I'm just a bit more careful!). To keep these people happy, it may be worth developing a good quality single capiron as an after-market extra. It's not a high priority thing, just an added extra to try to keep everybody happy.

I would like to add that this is intended as a constructive criticism, and is in no way a gripe! Clifton is a fine brand (I wouldn't part with my Clifton shoulder planes for a big gold clock!), and like the vast majority of the posters on this thread, I'd love to see the brand build on the very solid foundation Clico gave it. I'm quite sure that Thomas Flinn intend to do just that, and I wish them every good fortune in doing so.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Innocenti built Austin Allegro based cars in Italy too! Dunno how that happened but Italians must be susceptible to bad design too.

The only problem I can see Clifton suffering from is lack of range. They needed to have introduced more tools more often to keep the brand fresh and alive. I do not own any Clifton bench planes, (though have a few replacement irons) because I have a full set already. No doubt Cliftons are better than my fettled Records, but not be enough to sell them and buy new replacements. I have, however, bought a few specialist planes recently and would have considered Clifton, if they had made them. How long do I have to wait for something new? Too long, and Veritas fulfilled the need, so I got their offerings instead. Now I probably never will own a Clifton, because even my more obscure planing needs have now been fulfilled. I do hope Clifton continue manufacturing tools for future generations, but their lack of haste has caused them to bypass me and many craftsmen my age, by only producing planes we already own!

Mike.

 

[deema]

Well firstly, I would like to thank thomasflinn with and 'I' not a 'y' for responding to the comments and concerns raised. What is being expressed are the views of the passionate wood workers, who really should be your ambassadors and promoters of your products. Social media and forums in particular are extremely powerful marketing tools that help you get your message out about your products but can also bite you severity if you don't listen and respond positively. Defensive comments only give the impression that you don't actually care about your customers opinions, and with the internet it's very easy to research products and make decisions based in others opinions. Most people value a forums opinion over any company's marketing blurb.

May I suggest that up you use the social media and the well known forums to start a dialogue with the wood working community. Ask open questions like, would you like us to have a one piece cap iron as an optional extra. How do you rate our blades compared to other manufacturers etc. you will get free marketing feedback, and by making the changes that are popular and on balance either improve the product or at least don't detract from its performance you will build a very solid and strong loyalty and following of your products. People are predacious about supporting things they believe in. At the moment, I don't think that either LN or LV have any form if social product development.

As an idea, which by the way I have done in my on company, launch a pre design of a product in sketchup and ask for input. You will be amazed how much people will actually do to develop your products into something that is vastly better than your initial ideas. Critique the suggestion's and also feedback about the cost implications of the design tweaks being suggested. You will end up with a tool where if you put it into production you will have back orders for.

Organise for pass arounds of tools and welcome feedback. But most of all act on the feedback otherwise you will turn off those who are passionate about buying a truly British product.

Do not spend money advertising in woodworking magazines, spend it on developing your social media, uTube and web site content. Show people how to make products, how to rectify problems, Sponsor someone in the UK who is an 'unplugged' woodworker, or similar. People starting out watch this stuff and then want to buy the products they use. It's about thinking differently, it's hiring a young (minded) person who spends their days on the internet socialising and getting them to look after your content.

It's a passionate plea to stop spending money on developing / changing and refining a product before you both know who your customers are what they want. Match the price of LN / LV tools, sell direct but at the same price or slightly higher than your distributors. All good stuff to raise the GM.

Please, please do not kill yet another Great British product.

 

[Fromey]

I'd echo the comment about don't waste money on advertising in print magazines. I'm now 50 so becoming part of the ageing demographic and I buy no print magazines. All my woodworking information is serviced by the internet and occasional books. But I suppose there is the risk that I'm a biased form of feedback since I'm here on a forum!

 

[MickCheese]

I really like my green Clifton no4. But I also like the look of the grey Clifton.

Maybe I need another.

Mick

 

[jimi43]

What Deema said!!

Absolutely.

The old ways of product development are long gone.

And what the hell is wrong with coffee anyway!! :mrgreen:

I bet that goes down well with the worlds biggest marketplace outside the UK!

Jimi

 

[Peter Sefton]

And what the hell is wrong with coffee anyway!! :mrgreen:

I bet that goes down well with the worlds biggest marketplace outside the UK!

Jimi[/quote]

What's wrong with drinking tea in Yorkshire?
Do we have to give up all our heritage!

 

[Vann]

I own two Cliftons - a No.3 and a No.4 1/2. I'm very passionate about them.

I like the BR Green and am dissappointed that's changing.

The wonky stamp doesn't worry me (a sign of the manufacturing process), and I've fitted two-piece cap irons to a number of my non-Cliftons.

However, two things I don't like (that no one else has mentioned in this thread):
- The domed nuts on the handles. The knob nut at least, should be flat or only domed as much as the wood surrounding it (use the remaining domed-nut stock on the totes);
- The ribs on the bodies of the larger planes. Just aesthetics I know, but LN planes don't need them, and the better quality Stanley and Record planes of old don't have them. Somehow they've become a sign of later, poorer quality planes (to me anyway).

I too am waiting for the block plane (I'm sticking with my Stanley 110 for the present).

My tuppence worth.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

The loss of BRG, which followed the livery of Record's aborted premium range (Calvert Stevens) is a shame, especially when grunge grey is the alternative (to me, it's as if they're trying to hide in the shadows instead of celebrating their old world roots)
Could always buck the thick iron trend and investigate a laminated iron as came standard with the CS - lovely piece of kit, but expensive to produce I imagine.
A nice addition would be a technical jack, giving the Clifton line a 5 1/4 and a shooting plane in one.
Properly shaped handles with traditional hang are the one improvement I'd like across the range - perhaps as an option, so high bench users can still enjoy using the tool just under their chin.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Please note, I never mentioned the two piece cap iron!

May I suggest following the new Lee Valley "cafeteria plan", whereas you give the user the choice of colors, two piece-cap, handles & totes, "hand forged" imprint mark, etc. For me, I would leave my 12 year old Clifton #3 as is, very handsome plane. As I previously posted, I have also outfitted several other planes with your two piece cap iron (works great for those of us that don't use jigs for sharpening.

I have also posted here and on several American forums my high regard for the 14" Pax sash saw I purchased earlier this year from "The Best Things": bargain price saw that compares favorably with any of the in vogue "boutique" makers.

Maybe Clifton/Thomas Flinn should send a few tools out to some of the internet bloggers that go around promoting tools more than using tools?

Regardless of what direction Flinn takes, I wish the company well, as there are fewer and fewer handtool makers for the masses, producing tools to be used.

 

[deema]

This thread is moving in a slightly different direction which is really interesting. To build in the new direction may I Suggest that you make contributions on how Clifton could enhance one of their planes, say the no 4 to an extent that you would be happy (should you have the cash) to pay say £20 more for it than a LN / LV bevel down plane.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I think the iron, cap iron and overall aesthetic already warranted it. A properly angled handle is the only refinement for me - otherwise it needs replacing/reshaping to minimise stress on my wrist (which may be a more sensitive gauge of the optimum angle than a healthy wrist.)

 

[Peter Sefton]

I think the iron, cap iron and overall aesthetic already warranted it. A properly angled handle is the only refinement for me - otherwise it needs replacing/reshaping to minimise stress on my wrist (which may be a more sensitive gauge of the optimum angle than a healthy wrist.)

I agree, I feel they are already the best hand plane available at this price point. They have soul and you can see the amount of work that has into making them.
My experience with students in the workshop trying out a whole variety of planes is that the Clifton's seem to be the most comfortable for the majority of users. But one plane maker is never going to be able to produce a plane handle that fits every ones hand size and grip.
We know Veritas has just launched the range of different handles and knobs, it will be interesting to see how we suppliers deal with it as it's rolled out.

 

[yetihunting]

Long time listener, first time caller.

I liked the old look, I like the new look!
"Graphite", so depending on lighting, it looks
either somewhat bare iron or somewhat black, right?
Those times I tried fiddling with old Stanleys, the tar
was the first thing to go. And my pair of czech record clone vises?
They're about to get stripped just as well.

Here's a one guy in the states that drools over Clifton planes.
Our dollar is weak against the pound, and shipping is a week
in pounds across a pond.
In 2014, the Clifton lineup is a little to a lot more expensive than
Lie-Nielsen, which, in turn, is a little to a lot more than Veritas.
So, like many North Americans, I look and don't touch.
Since everyone decided to chime in with opinions, I'll throw
my bid in for finding a way to compete out here, price-wise, while staying profitable.
It can't be easy, the competition only sells direct (no distributor and virtually no retailers) on my continent.

 

[bugbear]

Wild cooincidence territory ... over the weekend on Quest "How It's made" had two consecutive episodes, one showing Flinn Garlick making one and two man cross cut logging saws, the other showing (green)Clifton planes.

BugBear