Weird pattern inside some maple?

[Kicked Back]

I just jointed (not thicknessed - ie. no rollers) the surface of some maple and there was this weird pattern inside. It's not on the surface (chiseled away a bit and it's still there) and required about 2-3mm worth of passes to get rid of it. Any ideas what it is or where it came from? It kind of looks like something has soaked in at the timber yard or some other unnatural influence...

Also turns out it had some nasty internal tension as well. Banana'd after ripping on the table saw.

 

[profchris]

Maple does that sometimes.

Here's some flame maple:

Birdseye also happens:

Yours hasn't enough figure to be highly desirable, plus ... banana! But if you do find the good stuff, save it for something special.

 

[Kicked Back]

Maple does that sometimes.

Here's some flame maple:

View attachment 138551

Birdseye also happens:

View attachment 138552

Yours hasn't enough figure to be highly desirable, plus ... banana! But if you do find the good stuff, save it for something special.

Huh, I hadn't considered it could be figuring, which is funny because I've got a bunch of "5A" flamed and birdseye maple. I guess that's what the non-sellable stuff looks like!

 

[thetyreman]

to me it just looks like planer marks not flame

 

[Argus]

to me it just looks like planer marks not flame

True that....... sometimes rotating planer blades can leave a residual bruise mark, even when the surface seems smooth. It often depends on the sap condition in the board when it's cut.

Additionally, I have found that the cut wood of many of the Acer group - Maple, Sycamore and the like - can gain a surface discoloration from contact with other trees or objects during drying. Sometime sticking marks are visible after it is prepared.
Sycamore - a close relative - is notorious for picking up stains during drying.

It may be possible to plane it off down to clear wood......what's the other side like?


.

 

[Kicked Back]

True that....... sometimes rotating planer blades can leave a residual bruise mark, even when the surface seems smooth. It often depends on the sap condition in the board when it's cut.

Additionally, I have found that the cut wood of many of the Acer group - Maple, Sycamore and the like - can gain a surface discoloration from contact with other trees or objects during drying. Sometime sticking marks are visible after it is prepared.
Sycamore - a close relative - is notorious for picking up stains during drying.

It may be possible to plane it off down to clear wood......what's the other side like?


.

Other side was fine. The marks were up to around 3mm deep and eventually planed away. I dug one out with a chisel and it went clear through the chip, so wasn't simply on the surface. Hadn't heard of bruising before, which I guess could be more than skin deep?

 

[Argus]

Those marks may have been caused by debris lying on the board when it was cut and stickered....... it could have been pile of leaves, typically. The paler woods tend to show that sort of thing more readily than the darker timbers.

On the issue of the bruising, or a visible line, if you consider the act of planing in a thicknesser, the rotating knives enter the cut, scooping a tiny chip against the grain. This happens thousands of times in the board's passage through the machine.
The effect is to produce a surface that consists of extremely minute and very shallow undulations. Sometimes it's visible to the eye..... which is why I always finish with hand-planes if that surface is on show.

Occasionally you may notice visible striations across the timber even when it appears smooth to the eye - the ghost of the descending planer-blade.
Sometimes it's there - sometimes not.
It varies with the condition of the planer blades and the actual hardness of the wood.
A layer of hand planing finishes the surface and gets rid of it away with the shavings.

Good luck....

 

[recipio]

I think it's what the Yanks call ' Ambrosia' - a brown shade commonly found in maple. As an aside, maple is difficult to plane - the shavings roll off in curls and it's better to take small passes with sharp blades.

 

[sawtooth-9]

These type of "patterns" in maple and other timbers arise from two factors ( usually )
The stresses parts of the tree undergo during growth
and
The direction of cut during milling
This looks like fiddleback cut and often shows where a tree produces heavy branches.
Those patterns are usually a result of compression stresses.
Value it !
You can see that the pattern shows through the thickness of the board - so it's not a surface effect !

 

[the great waldo]

View attachment 138545

I just jointed (not thicknessed - ie. no rollers) the surface of some maple and there was this weird pattern inside. It's not on the surface (chiseled away a bit and it's still there) and required about 2-3mm worth of passes to get rid of it. Any ideas what it is or where it came from? It kind of looks like something has soaked in at the timber yard or some other unnatural influence...

Also turns out it had some nasty internal tension as well. Banana'd after ripping on the table saw.

I'm not sure what that is, but I had something similar with a really nice piece of curly (Flamed for us Brits) maple which I resawed down the middle only to find grey/brown staining on the inside surfaces. I have a strong suspicion that it was caused by how the wood was kiln dried. I had the piece for some years before I cut it to book match. It's a bit of a pain as I wanted to have the open surface as the top (Of a guitar) where the book matching joins the best together. I'll probably use the outside faces although I fear I may carve into the stained wood !!??
Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm not sure what that is, but I had something similar with a really nice piece of curly (Flamed for us Brits) maple which I resawed down the middle only to find grey/brown staining on the inside surfaces. I have a strong suspicion that it was caused by how the wood was kiln dried.

You are most likely correct. A grey discolouration in maples is usually described as oxidative reaction of water soluble low molecular compounds including carbohydrates, amino acids, and phenolics, and a similarly described cause is enzymatic oxidation of accessory phenolic compounds especially in the case of thicker boards, and is the result of too slow drying of freshly milled boards. Too late for you, but If converted wood is to be kiln dried the generally accepted practice is to immediately sticker up the planks, get the stack into the kiln equally quickly, and start the drying swiftly using temperatures below 30º C until the wood reaches about 20 percent MC. Thereafter dry as normal for furniture grade wood.

I suspect the OP's photographed example at the top of the thread may be showing a similar discolouration fault to the one you've described. Slainte.

 

[Adam W.]

You are most likely correct. A grey discolouration in maples is usually described as oxidative reaction of water soluble low molecular compounds including carbohydrates, amino acids, and phenolics, and a similarly described cause is enzymatic oxidation of accessory phenolic compounds especially in the case of thicker boards, and is the result of too slow drying of freshly milled boards. Too late for you, but If converted wood is to be kiln dried the generally accepted practice is to immediately sticker up the planks, get the stack into the kiln equally quickly, and start the drying swiftly using temperatures below 30º C until the wood reaches about 20 percent MC. Thereafter dry as normal for furniture grade wood.

I suspect the OP's photographed example at the top of the thread may be showing a similar discolouration fault to the one you've described. Slainte.

You've been reading Koch and Skarvelis, 2007: Discolouration of wood during drying.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

You've been reading Koch and Skarvelis, 2007: Discolouration of wood during drying.

True. That and other sources. I guess you probably don't need or want to see a fuller list of my reading matter on timber tech subjects, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[Adam W.]

True. That and other sources. I guess you probably don't need or want to see a fuller list of my reading matter on timber tech subjects, ha, ha. Slainte.

I'm always up for a bit of light reading.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm always up for a bit of light reading.

I can recommend any of the Famous Five books by Enid Blyton, but be aware, if you already weren't, that she's now sometimes considered a bit off colour and antediluvian with regard to her perceived attitude and perspective in certain matters. Slainte.

 

[baldkev]

Hi I saw you message regarding the kity spindle molder I have a K5 best combi with a 15mm molder but its broken is the one you have still available and how much do you want for it? We are using the kity to renovate our old farmhouse in Germany

I'm not sure what that is, but I had something similar with a really nice piece of curly (Flamed for us Brits) maple which I resawed down the middle only to find grey/brown staining on the inside surfaces. I have a strong suspicion that it was caused by how the wood was kiln dried. I had the piece for some years before I cut it to book match. It's a bit of a pain as I wanted to have the open surface as the top (Of a guitar) where the book matching joins the best together. I'll probably use the outside faces although I fear I may carve into the stained wood !!??
Cheers
Andrew

I wonder if oxalic acid might restore the original colour?

 

[Adam W.]

I can recommend any of the Famous Five books by Enid Blyton, but be aware, if you already weren't, that she's now sometimes considered a bit off colour and antediluvian with regard to her perceived attitude and perspective in certain matters. Slainte.

Best keep your reading list to yourself in that case. I'll just run your posts through a plagiarism checker instead.

Skål.

 

[the great waldo]

I wonder if oxalic acid might restore the original colour?

I tried that, it worked a little. I'm still tossing a coin to choose which side becomes the face. The weathers hot here in Austria at the moment so i'll take a chance and put it the wood in the sun for a bit.
Cheers
Andrew

 

[sawtooth-9]

This is not flame or planer marks
Possibly, the environment where the timber has been stored - too much moisture ?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Best keep your reading list to yourself in that case. I'll just run your posts through a plagiarism checker instead.
Skål.

Ha, ha. You're more than welcome to check for plagiarism. In truth, a fair selection of my reading list is already out there if you want to check it out for a bit of light reading and know where to look, which I suspect you do ... know where to look, I mean. Slainte.