Watching accident videos

[MikeJhn]

I think 1882/3 would be about the same time as my accident as I left school at 15 but definitely early 80,s ..

Your post makes you over 140 years old.

The video although informative is typically American takes 14mins to say what could have been explained in two, the unnecessary padding to the video and not getting to the point, is what makes most people think H&S is not worth the time to watch, you would not find this on a professionally made H&S video, they know that the audience would get bored and switch their brains off, the average attention span in a dark room is sixteen seconds, unless you are doing something very engaging.

 

[Adam W.]

@Agent_zed

It's OK, I don't mind. Here are my thoughts.

It's entirely up to you or the purchaser of a woodworking machine to achieve the necessary level of competence required to operate the machine to an acceptable safe working standard.

Unfortunately, in order to save a bit of cash and to make life easier, people turn to videos like this one for their information. Then, in many cases, after doing a bit of shed work, youtubing and blagging their way through an NVQ2 in wood occupations, these people turn up on a construction site thinking that they are somehow qualified and know how to do it all.

If you work in a construction site environment, which I do, you find yourself surrounded by such people and its immediately obvious that;

• They don't know what they are doing.
• They have received no proper training.
• They are dangerous to be around.
• And crucially, they shouldn't be standing on a construction site.

Unfortunately youtube is also full of such people providing "training" to the unwary. That's why I don't watch these videos and my personal choice is to obtain formal training from a suitably qualified instructor if I want to purchase or use any woodworking machine or safety equipment.

I'm not going to be arrogant and list my qualifications, experience and training, but they are many, and despite this training, I still don't consider myself to be qualified enough to provide safety instruction on the use of woodworking machinery.

That is why I don't watch these people messing about in their sheds.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

Whilst the example in the video is a not particularly clever object to try and rip on the bandsaw freehand, he does miss completely the main cause of the problem which is grain direction when ripping. The grain direction of the work was pointing upwards into the blade so that it would be cutting against the grain and have a much higher proclivity to pull the work downwards opposed to if the grain was pointed downwards and cutting with the grain.

You can even try the effect with a handsaw, you will find the saw more grippy ripping against the grain than with the grain.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

If you work in a construction site environment, which I do, you find yourself surrounded by such people and its immediately obvious that;

• They don't know what they are doing.
• They have received no proper training.
• They are dangerous to be around.
• And crucially, they shouldn't be standing on a construction site.

.... and blagging their way through an NVQ2 in wood occupations, these people turn up on a construction site thinking that they are somehow qualified and know how to do it all.

If you work in a construction site environment, which I do, you find yourself surrounded by such people and its immediately obvious that;

• They don't know what they are doing.
• They have received no proper training.
• They are dangerous to be around.
• And crucially, they shouldn't be standing on a construction site.

Unfortunately youtube is also full of such people providing "training" to the unwary.

That is why I don't watch these people messing about in their sheds.

Whilst my experience is all pretty much workshop based rather than site work, I can attest to the sometimes low level 'instruction' provided to apprentice bench joiners and carpenters having myself some experience of teaching joinery apprentices at colleges. I have witnessed more than one carpentry lecturer demonstrating regrinding and sharpening a bench chisel. In both cases it was obvious neither lecturer knew how to do the job satisfactorily. I'll not go into details but I resisted stepping in to make corrections and limited myself to thinking about what else might be badly taught to those apprentices and, further, confirming my sense that there's a significant number of 'qualified' wood hacks out there doing the shoddy work that the construction industry quite often has to deal with one way or another.

As to the video, I did sort of watch it, which is rare for me. It took about ten seconds of the intro to work out the likely nature of the accident. Then another sixty or so seconds to skip through the rest of the ~sixteen minute video to confirm what I expected. As MikeJhn above said, these amateur made videos illustrating amateur woodworker's accidents almost always take far too long to get to the point. Slainte.

 

[Bingy man]

Your post makes you over 140 years old.

The video although informative is typically American takes 14mins to say what could have been explained in two, the unnecessary padding to the video and not getting to the point, is what makes most people think H&S is not worth the time to watch, you would not find this on a professionally made H&S video, they know that the audience would get bored and switch their brains off, the average attention span in a dark room is sixteen seconds, unless you are doing something very engaging.

Must of been late - definitely 1980, and I’m 58 in a couple of days

 

[Adam W.]

A recent experience:

I was informed by my project manager that as I was only the joiner, I should not attempt to comment on the work of the child aged supervisor, as he was getting upset.

Another chap was working as a site carpenter with a blue NVQ2 ticket and he was unable to knock together an OSB crate to fit..........It turned out that he had a fake NVQ2 in painting and decorating.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Only the joiner?

 

[Mikebart]

A recent experience:

I was informed by my project manager that as I was only the joiner, I should not attempt to comment on the work of the child aged supervisor, as he was getting upset.

Another chap was working as a site carpenter with a blue NVQ2 ticket and he was unable to knock together an OSB crate to fit..........It turned out that he had a fake NVQ2 in painting and decorating.

Been there done that.
Having spent my working life (retired now) in the manufacturing industry and a lot of site work it is frightening to think what I was asked to do or did by today’s standards.
Many times I have refused to do something because it really was dangerous,and got into trouble for refusing to do it.

 

[Adam W.]

And funny enough, I've been trying to get my ticket to work as a chippy in Denmark, so I sent my NVQ3 and all the other shiz off to the authorities. I got a letter back yesterday saying that they had approved my qualifications and it meant that I I could skip the first year of technical college and join the 18 year olds for the next three years.

 

[Orraloon]

Whilst the example in the video is a not particularly clever object to try and rip on the bandsaw freehand, he does miss completely the main cause of the problem which is grain direction when ripping. The grain direction of the work was pointing upwards into the blade so that it would be cutting against the grain and have a much higher proclivity to pull the work downwards opposed to if the grain was pointed downwards and cutting with the grain.

You can even try the effect with a handsaw, you will find the saw more grippy ripping against the grain than with the grain.

I think you will find the issue was sticking a round bit of wood into the blade so the downwards force is not supported. You can cut on a bandsaw with the grain in any direction as well as freehand cutting provided the workpiece sits flat on the table. Kind of what bandsaws are made for. Only thing that happens if you saw with the grain running up and down is you get long shavings rather than sawdust.
As Adam is saying it is up to the operator to understand the safety issues when operating any machine and often online video is not always a reliable source for training.

Regards
John

 

[Against_The_Grain]

I think you will find the issue was sticking a round bit of wood into the blade so the downwards force is not supported.

Hence why I said not an ideal object to cut which was already covered in the video.

You can cut on a bandsaw with the grain in any direction as well as freehand cutting provided the workpiece sits flat on the table. Kind of what bandsaws are made for. Only thing that happens if you saw with the grain running up and down is you get long shavings rather than sawdust.

Yes, but my point still stands that you will still have a much higher tendency for the piece to snatch when cutting against the grain as in the video even on a flat piece, which you get aggressive chips being ripped out rather than sawdust when cutting across the grain vertically or stringy shavings cutting with the grain.

 

[TRITON]

Our college rip saw

We were taught the front of the blade isn't 1/2 as dangerous as the back of the blade.
Front just snips off fingers and thumbs, but the back, with the teeth facing upward can take your whole hand with it up into the substantial steel guard.
So feeding is fine, and the usual care and attention, but outfeed, when taking the cut bits off needs as much care and attention.

Smallest sections I've done on it were about 8" long by 7"high probably 2" thick*, and a bit of a proposition cutting them with a 2' blade, mitred too now I remember


* I needed two bits out the one I'd got out the scrap bin, only way was down the middle angled.

 

[Adam W.]

Amputations'R'Us

 

[TRITON]

Amputations'R'Us

At least with saw blades theres the chance bits can be sewn back on. SPINDLE MOULDERS on the other hand(pun) they pretty much vapourize the soft fleshy bits

Come into contact with that and its not so much looking for the finger on the floor and more like wiping down the walls

 

[Orraloon]

Hence why I said not an ideal object to cut which was already covered in the video.



Yes, but my point still stands that you will still have a much higher tendency for the piece to snatch when cutting against the grain as in the video even on a flat piece, which you get aggressive chips being ripped out rather than sawdust when cutting across the grain vertically or stringy shavings cutting with the grain.

I agree that with some grain directions there will be more downwards force but if the cut is supported as in not likely to tilt on the table by said force then its only going to be a slower cut.
Regards
John

 

[MikeJhn]

Sliding table on the Bandsaw and hot glue the piece to the sliding table would enable that cut to have been made somewhat safely used to do this when cutting the first face off a log.

 

[Adam W.]

At least with saw blades theres the chance bits can be sewn back on. SPINDLE MOULDERS on the other hand(pun) they pretty much vapourize the soft fleshy bits

Come into contact with that and its not so much looking for the finger on the floor and more like wiping down the walls

Ugh, blurgh!

Now you know why I do all this heritage shiz, I don't need to go in the vicinity of such flesh eating apparatus.

 

[Ttrees]

Just asking about this floating crown guard, looks kinda small, for the size of blades that
machine takes.
Still legit?

Thanks

 

[Sideways]

I'd never set one that high. Not entirely a waste of space but I'd be setting the blade to come about 1cm out of the top surface of the wood and I want less than 1cm between the bottom of the guard and the top of the wood to keep fingers out from under. Also, the less momentum you let the timber build up in the wrong direction, the easier it is to stop.

All the guard in the video is going to do is slow the timber down if it pinches on the back of the blade and swings up and over into the operators face. It'll do nothing to stop the wood being lifted off the table and then fired back into the operators gut.

Why is it set like that ?
Most of those style guards are slow and awkward to adjust so users don't bother repositioning them as they should.

 

[Ttrees]

I'd never set one that high. Not entirely a waste of space but I'd be setting the blade to come about 1cm out of the top surface of the wood and I want less than 1cm between the bottom of the guard and the top of the wood to keep fingers out from under. Also, the less momentum you let the timber build up in the wrong direction, the easier it is to stop.

All the guard in the video is going to do is slow the timber down if it pinches on the back of the blade and swings up and over into the operators face. It'll do nothing to stop the wood being lifted off the table and then fired back into the operators gut.

Why is it set like that ?
Most of those style guards are slow and awkward to adjust so users don't bother repositioning them as they should.

But is/can it still be legit, if set correctly?
as most machines with such overhead guards are generally quite a bit longer,
(note the blades hung up on the wall)

Discounting an argument whether it counts as safe or not, when the blade is tilted,
should that not count as enclosed, (guessing there's some gray area there)
but I'll happily read it.

Tom