Wanting to get a new plane - Opinions / advice sought

[TonyW]

I am looking to acquire a new plane either a No 6 or ideally a No 7 jointer. In fact probably looking to replace existing No 4, No 5 and block planes with something better eventually.

First a confession. I have been (and to a degree still am) a “sucker” for cheap tools – I keep on hoping that maybe this one or the next will prove to be a “little gem”.
Perhaps I should change my forum name to El Cheapo! Anyway to a degree I support the view that you largely get what you pay for. On the other hand I also believe the old adage “a poor workman blames his tools”. I would expect that a true craftsman could make even my poor quality tools sing.

Needless to say I have never experienced what I guess most would consider quality planes.

Reading previous post and reviews many people extol the virtues of the likes of LN, Clifton, Veritas etc. while condemning the likes of Stanley and particularly Anant ( I bet you already know where El Cheapo is heading).

Looking at price the No 6 and No 7 from Veritas come in at £170 - £185, the Cliftons at £206-£220 and the LN’s wow! Compared to the cost of the Anant No 6 at £35 and No 7 at £50 the price differential to my mind is huge. One seller of Anant recommends upgrading the blade to a Hock which may add another £30 to the cost but still leaves a large price differential.

Finally to my questions
With a better blade and a degree of fettling do you think the Anant could be made to perform to an acceptable level?
Would I be better off looking at the second hand market? If so what would you recommend?
Bearing in mind my limited experience should I just blow the budget and go for a new quality manufacturer (I think I know the answer to this one)

Thanks in advance for your suggestions
Regards
Tony

 

[Paul Kierstead]

Reading previous post and reviews many people extol the virtues of the likes of LN, Clifton, Veritas etc. while condemning the likes of Stanley and particularly Anant ( I bet you already know where El Cheapo is heading).

I think you'll find that people condemn modern Stanleys. The older ones are very very good planes and can be had for modest (even from a tool dealer) prices in excellent condition. Even if they do require a little fettling, they will require less then an Anant and are capable of excellent performance. If you want to be cheap, that is the route to go. In planes go big or go old.

 

[ByronBlack]

the other option is to buy a good quality second hand record or stanley and fit with an aftermarket blade such as the hock, you'll get excellent results for not a lot of cash. My record no.7 cost me about £70 and apart from a little sharpening/honing of the blade worked almost straight away.

 

[TonyW]

Firstly an apology to the forum members - After searching for a second time found quite a lot of comments about Anant etc. Sorry for requesting info that has already been covered. I have now crossed Anant out of the equation.

Paul and Byron thanks guys for your comments - I think that for now the good quality second hand route is the way for me.

One more question if you can stand it :roll:.
Comment has been made about the modern Stanleys (and I assume Records) being of poorer quality than the older versions. Therefore what vintage should I be aiming for?

Cheers
Tony

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

“a poor workman blames his tools”. I would expect that a true craftsman could make even my poor quality tools sing.

Tony

My answer to this has always been that a true craftsman would never own poor quality tools in the first place :lol:
Personally I have a mixed bag of vintage and new planes.
All of the old ones I have won off of eBay, but I have never got caught into a bidding war!
I have a type 10 Stanley 6 which was about £40 plus postage.
Its a fantastic plane, and the blade is as good as the cliftons I own.

 

[ByronBlack]

Tony I think as a general rule, almost anything pre-war is supposed to be pretty good. Search for 'Blood and Gore' in google, and you'll fine a very good reference to all things stanley, and they give you some good ways of dating planes.

Personaly, I could never really be bothered and and bought a nice example of: www.oldtools.co.uk

 

[mr]

Looking at price the No 6 and No 7 from Veritas come in at £170 - £185, the Cliftons at £206-£220 and the LN’s wow!

HI Tony if youre looking at that sort of money The one thing you may have overlooked is the LN low angle 7 1/2 which weighs in at similar to the clifton in terms of price. Significantly cheaper than the LN 7 & 8.

Sadly reviews on the thing seem to be thin on the ground - least I havent found any.

Cheers Mike

 

[Paul Chapman]

Tony,

If you go for a second-hand Record plane, the newer ones have a skeletal pattern frog like the one on the left in the picture below (which was bought in 1970). Older ones have a frog like the one on the right. I find that the frog like the one on the right gives a much better seating for the blade

If you can get a "Stay-set" model it will be pre-mid 1960s. You can tell them because they have 'SS' on the lever cap as in the picture below

"Stay-set" refers to the Stay-set cap iron which I like (although some people don't seem to like them). The one on the right in the picture below is a Record Stay-set cap iron fitted to a blade, the one on the left is a similar one which is manufactured today by Clifton

The design of the Stay-set cap iron helps to make the blade more rigid and, in my view, is far better than the rather crude cap irons found on most planes.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MrJay]

My Stanley #7 came via eBay and is pretty darn spiffy. The other bench planes I've scored are a mixed bunch. I'm inclined to sell them on and put the proceeds towards a Clifton smoother. Internet purchases have a distinct lucky-dipness about them.

I also interpret the adage about a bad workman as meaning that a good workman buys good quality tools and looks after them.

 

[TonyW]

Thanks to all for the replies. Paul thank you for going to the trouble of including images - found it very helpful.

Cheers

Tony

 

[Paul Chapman]

No problem, Tony - pleased that you found it helpful

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

Tony,

If you go for a second-hand Record plane, the newer ones have a skeletal pattern frog like the one on the left in the picture below (which was bought in 1970). Older ones have a frog like the one on the right. I find that the frog like the one on the right gives a much better seating for the blade


If you can get a "Stay-set" model it will be pre-mid 1960s. You can tell them because they have 'SS' on the lever cap as in the picture below


"Stay-set" refers to the Stay-set cap iron which I like (although some people don't seem to like them). The one on the right in the picture below is a Record Stay-set cap iron fitted to a blade, the one on the left is a similar one which is manufactured today by Clifton


The design of the Stay-set cap iron helps to make the blade more rigid and, in my view, is far better than the rather crude cap irons found on most planes.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Great info and images. To add and qualify - there are Stay Sets with "skeletal frogs". And I prefer the earlier blades, which are easily identifiable by their sharp corners at the top (later blades had rounded corners, which are softer on the skin if youy catch yourself).

But if you buy a Record with the earlier (non skeletal) frog, you'll (95% chance) have a good deal. It's the easiest thing to look for.

I wouldn't worry about pre-war USA Stanleys - they're not common in the UK, and carry a heavy premium (when sold by anyone who knows what they are...)

BugBear

 

[lurker]

Can I extend this thread by enquiring about recommendations for superior aftermarket blades (& suppliers) for records.
Sorry to highjack!

 

[Colin C]

I wouldn't worry about pre-war USA Stanleys - they're not common in the UK, and carry a heavy premium (when sold by anyone who knows what they are...)

BugBear

HI BB

Some times you can be lucky and get a good user on Ebay for a fare price.

I got a #7c stanley for £45 with p+p

 

[Paul Chapman]

Can I extend this thread by enquiring about recommendations for superior aftermarket blades (& suppliers) for records.

All of the established ones are probably good - Clifton, LN, Hock - with not much to choose between them. But remember, you will probably need a longer 'Y' lever and screw for fitting the cap iron because of the extra thickness of the blade and you might need to open up the mouth of the plane a little.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[TonyW]

BugBear thanks for the advice and additional info. I like the 95% chance of a good deal - my kind of odds

Lurker Good question 8)

Paul Interesting about fitting new blades - while I don't mind a bit off fettling this sounds like it may be "a fettle too far" :wink: :roll:

Colin C I am considering the Ebay route - however lack of knowledge so far has stopped me rushing in - i.e. saw a recent 7 that looked old but turns out to be a 1970 vintage which if I am understanding correctly is a little too new to be considered wothwhile. 8-[

Cheers

Tony

 

[Colin C]

Tony

When comes to Stanley planes, look for rosewood handles and if you can get one with a low front handle, then the is a good chance that it will be before 1925 give or take a few years.

The one I got was a low knob one with I like to use more than the high ones

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul Interesting about fitting new blades - while I don't mind a bit off fettling this sounds like it may be "a fettle too far" :wink: :roll:

Another alternative is to keep the original blade but fit a better cap iron. Ones like the Clifton two piece (Stay-set) cap iron increase the stiffness of the blade and result in a better performance. You can fit these without the need for a new 'Y' lever or having to open the mouth of the plane.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Colin C]

Paul

There is also one blade you missed :roll:

Japanese blades are also very good as I have one in my #7 and it does hold a very good edge

 

[patrick]

Hi Tony.

I have bought a few planes off Ebay and by and large if you follow the advice on this thread you can get a good plane for reasonable money. If you ask questions and there are good pictures of the listing one can normally avoid disaster.
With regards to fettling a plane, this is a process that can bring great rewards and I have a stanley 5 1/2 that is every bit as good as a clifton. This plane has a replacement Hock blade and chip breaker, an addition I would consider essential to any standard bench plane and an addition that will fit straight out of the box. I have tried other aftermarket blades with less success and would hole heartidly recommend the Hock.
However, fettling of this plane took more hours than I care to remember (15+?) and if I had to do it all again I have to say I would buy a Clifton or Veritas. Some of the Veritas planes represent incredible value for money in my opinion. They have levels of engineering comparable to a Lie Nielsen but with modern and innovative design at prices that are lower than some of the Cliftons.