Wanting to build a door for a glorified shed with a bit of substance

[el_Pedr0]

Hi all,

Please can you share some ideas of how to build a door for my small shed/garden building. The door will be clad in larch and I want it to feel a bit substantial - kind of like a normal door rather than a shed door.

The sides and back of the building will be clad in bog standard treated feather edge because they won't be visible (the shed is being squeezed into a recess in the garden). But I want the front to be a bit of a feature, so will be clad in larch. This is the kind of look I'm aiming for:



My plan for my building looks like this:

I guess the typical thing would be to just use vertical larch panel and then create a ledged and brace door like these:



But the rest of the 'shed' is built as stud walls, so a door of this construction might feel a bit thin/flimsey and a bit out of place. I even envisage it having a mortice latch, rather than a rim latch.

I thought about just buying a hollow core internal door and just sticking on the larch cladding. But then I worried that the cladding should have an air gap behind to allow it to stay dry. And then hollow-core door plus air gap plus cladding gets way too thick and complicates things with door handles/hinges etc.

So currently I'm thinking about building a framed, ledged and braced door, and then just fixing a panel to the back to give it the feeling of a solid construction.

Would welcome your thoughts.

 

[Inspector]

You could get a sheet of 3/4" or 1" exterior plywood and put your larch on it or put the faux stiles/rails/braces on it. Want to up the security? Get a welded angle iron frame made and bolt the plywood into it, the faux styles and rails hiding the screws in the plywood and angle iron. Angle iron attached around the door jamb. The leftover plywood can be used inside as shelves.

Pete

 

[Ollie78]

You could get a cheap ( sometimes free) secondhand composite or wooden front door so it has nice locks and seals.
Set it back inside the required amount. Overlap the cladding to cover the frame so you cant see it and clad the door face with the same larch.

Ollie

 

[Jameshow]

You would only need a thin air gap say 1/2 inch in front of a painted door. Often double glazing firms have doors in skips which they have replaced.

Cheers James

 

[el_Pedr0]

This sounds interesting. So batten a second hand front door with 12mm battens, and then fix the larch to the battens? Would I have to do the battens vertical to allow water ingress/condensation to run down?

I am getting the larch cut at a sawmill, so can specify how the planks are cut. I want the waney edge on the walls, but for the door should I get them cut square and butt them up to each other, or will they shrink and pull apart from each other to expose gaps to the door behind? If I overlap the boards, will it add so much thickness that the door handles and locks are awkward to fix or that the ironmongery in general will be difficult to fix given that the door's surface won't be flat?

 

[Sachakins]

Most cladding styles for doors run at 90 degrees to the wall cladding, as it makes a distinct feature for the entrance, else it looks like a solid featureless wall, with what look like some oddly placed bits of handle and hinges etc placed on it.

Sometimes it is intentionally same orientation as wall so as to make it look like a secret door, but in that instance there will be no visible door furniture or hinges etc visible.

You could just build a standard framed ledge a brace door, but on the inside you could fit some 18mm plywood onto the door framing, this gives a real sturdy feel to the door also.

 

[el_Pedr0]

No - don't want secret door. Aiming for the look of that shed in the first post and it has the door panels vertical, and on closer inspection it appears that they have gone with square edges butting up to each other. Maybe that is a ledge and brace door?

I'm lining the walls inside the shed with OSB, so could line the inside of a ledge and brace door with the same OSB material (albeit my lining is 11mm).

 

[Sachakins]

No - don't want secret door. Aiming for the look of that shed in the first post and it has the door panels vertical, and on closer inspection it appears that they have gone with square edges butting up to each other. Maybe that is a ledge and brace door?

I'm lining the walls inside the shed with OSB, so could line the inside of a ledge and brace door with the same OSB material (albeit my lining is 11mm).

That would do just fine. When I did a similar one, I insulated the voids with 50mm polystyrene. But my framing was 63mm, so gave a safe air gap between it and the cladding on the front, I had used a 18mm log lap for front. I did have to get a longer square spindle for the handle, but also gave space to fit a 5 leaver mortise dead lock and a 5 leaver mortise sash lock, so no ugly hasp and staples to be seen at all.

 

[Glitch]

I’ve recently done something similar.

Admittedly I got a joiner friend to make the frame. The only bit I didn’t do myself.
Due to my lack of planning and building skills the door opening wasn’t lined so I had to use Parliament hinges and the door is recessed.
However, I think that’s the look you want.

 

[GuitardoctorW7]

I built mine like many loft extensions I see around here. Basically a timber frame like yours then clad both sides in 18mm OSB3. The outside having a semi-permeable roofing membrane stapled on top, roofing battens on top of that, then cladding. Celotex in the cavities. Been great for the last 11 years, warm, dry and secure.

 

[el_Pedr0]

That's pretty much my construction EXCEPT insulation. As it's a shed, I was thinking of forgoing insulation not only to keep costs lower but also because insulation would create a temp differential which introduces the threat of condensation.

@GuitardoctorW7 Did you include a vapour barrier (i.e. on the inside of the insulation - I don't mean the breather membrane on the outside)? Why did you add insulation - is it more than just a shed?

(Wondering if I should reconsider insulation)

 

[Glitch]

If you follow the Mike G design you don't have OSB on the outside.

From inside out it's OSB, Studwork, Building wrap, Battens, Cladding. The OSB acts (to a degree) as a vapour barrier and any vapour that gets through is not trapped. You can put insulation between the studs.

The door can be the same with insulation and lined with OSB on the inside.

I did mine differently (or wrong depending who to talk to) because I was seduced by a couple of YT videos.

 

[el_Pedr0]

@Glitch just looked at your door again on the big screen of my 'pooter rather than the phone and noticed the eccenticity of those braces - the way that they are rebated into the ledges. Do you know why they were done like that? Seems like quite a bit of extra work so must be a pretty compelling reason.

 

[Glitch]

It's a solution to a problem I created for myself.
I hadn't factored in a lining for the door opening
If I put one in after the door would be far too narrow.
It means there is nothing substantial to fix a normal hinge to.
This door is heavy!
That only left the 4x2 stud substantial enough and that is set way back behind cladding, battens and OSB.

So I bought some (expensive) parliament hinges. This allows me to screw them securely into the stud.
It means the door is not flush with the cladding but I'm not too worried about that.
The purpose of a parliament hinge is to give the clearance of the cladding to allow it to open fully.

Not ideal but the best I could come up with.
I've have to make sure the exposed OSB is properly sealed.
There may be other solutions. I didn't want T hinges.

An interesting learning process. Never built a shed or fitted a door before.


.

 

[GuitardoctorW7]

That's pretty much my construction EXCEPT insulation. As it's a shed, I was thinking of forgoing insulation not only to keep costs lower but also because insulation would create a temp differential which introduces the threat of condensation.

@GuitardoctorW7 Did you include a vapour barrier (i.e. on the inside of the insulation - I don't mean the breather membrane on the outside)? Why did you add insulation - is it more than just a shed?

(Wondering if I should reconsider insulation)

Luckily not had any problems on that front. I have a small oil filled radiator set to 'frost free' which just takes the edge off the chilly weather, as my workshop is primarily for guitar repairs

 

[el_Pedr0]

It's a solution to a problem I created for myself.
I hadn't factored in a lining for the door opening

That's a nice work around. It looks like an intended feature rather than an acciedental omission.

But what I meant from the rebating are these details here:



It surely would have been easier for your joiner to cut the required angle into the diagonal brace so that it would simply butt up to the flat side of the ledge. But instead he/she has carefully cut out a precicely angled rebate in the horizontal ledges to accept the diagonal braces.

Would love to know why and whether I need to do the same.

(Great overall building - seeing the whole thing in context makes a great impression)

Oh - what timber is that on the fascia?

 

[Glitch]

Ah sorry. Completely missed the target.

Bottom line is that is the strongest way to brace.
More work but when you think about the forces in play it stops any chance of the brace sliding along the ledge. Definitely a case of belt and braces.

Thanks for your kind comments about my build. Perfect 'retirement in lockdown' project. Made a few mistakes but I'll never have to build another one at this house.

The fascia is cedar. I had grand plans to do the front cladding in cedar but changed my mind, partly due to cost.
Ended up Siberian larch all round. OTT perhaps, given you don't see most of it. The cedar should fade to grey and will blend in better over time.

 

[el_Pedr0]

@Glitch another question for you. Did you create an air gap behind the fascia board (eg by using battens like on the walls) ? Or did you just nail the fascia directly to the roof trimmers /rafters?

 

[el_Pedr0]

(deleted because it posted the message twice)

 

[Glitch]

@Glitch another question for you. Did you create an air gap behind the fascia board (eg by using battens like on the walls) ? Or did you just nail the fascia directly to the roof trimmers /rafters?

Nailed to the rafters. I haven't put soffits in to maximse airflow.
I glued bits of OSB topped with mesh to fill gaps between rafters and to hold the insulation in.
Drilled holes in rafter noggins so there is airflow between top of insulation and the underside of the roofing OSB